Episode Transcript

I.e. Versus E.g.
Episode 53: May 05, 2007

Grammar Girl here.

This episode is a new and improved version of i.e. versus e.g.

Misusing these two abbreviations is one of the top five mistakes I used to see when editing technical documents. There's so much confusion that in some of the drafts I got back from clients they had actually crossed out the right abbreviation and replaced it with the wrong one. I just had to laugh.

I.e. and e.g. are both abbreviations for Latin terms. I.e. stands for id est and means roughly "that is." E.g. stands for exempli gratia, which means “for example.” "Great. Latin," you're probably thinking. "How am I supposed to remember that?”

But by now, I'm sure you know that I'm not going to ask you to remember Latin. I'm going to give you a memory trick! So here's how I remember the difference. Forget about i.e. standing for "that is" or whatever it really means in Latin. From now on, i.e., which starts with i, means “in other words,” and e.g., which starts with e, means “for example.” I = in other words. E= example.

A few listeners have also written in to say that they remember the difference between i.e. and e.g. by imagining that i.e. means “in essence,” and e.g. sounds like “egg sample,” and those are good memory tricks too.

So now that you have a few tricks for remembering what the abbreviations mean, let's think about how to use them in a sentence.

E.g. means “for example,” so you use it to introduce an example: I like card games, e.g., bridge and crazy eights. Because I used e.g., you know that I have provided a list of examples of card games that I like. It's not a finite list of all card games I like; it's just a few examples.

On the other hand, i.e. means “in other words,” so you use it to introduce a further clarification: I like to play cards, i.e., bridge and crazy eights. Because I used i.e., which introduces a clarification, you know that these are the only card games that I enjoy.

Here are two more examples:

Squiggly loves watching old cartoons (e.g., DuckTales and Tugboat Mickey). The words following e.g. are examples, so you know that these are just some of the old cartoons that Squiggly enjoys.

Squiggly loves watching Donald Duck's nephews (i.e., Huey, Dewey, and Louie). The words following i.e. provide clarification: they tell you the names of Donald Duck's three nephews.

An important point is that if I've failed, and you're still confused about when to use each abbreviation, you can always just write out the words "for example" or "in other words." There's no rule that says you have to use the abbreviations.

Here are a few other things about i.e. and e.g. Don't italicize them; even though they are abbreviations for Latin words, they've been used for so long that they're considered a standard part of the English language. Also, remember that they are abbreviations, so there is always a period after each letter, and yet, despite the fact that they are abbreviations, there is no space in the middle.

Also, I always put a comma after i.e. and e.g. I've noticed that my spell checker always freaks out and wants me to remove the comma, but five out of six style guides recommend the comma. Seriously. I got so engrossed in the question of whether or not a comma is required after i.e. and e.g. that I made a  table for the web site summarizing the opinions of six different style guides.

Source
Recommendation
Chicago Manual of Style A comma is usually used after i.e. and e.g.
Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation Commas are preferable/optional after the abbreviations.
The Columbia Guide to Standard American English [Editors] require a comma after the second period [in these abbreviations].
The Guide to Grammar and Writing The comma [following i.e. and e.g.] makes good sense.
Lynch Guide to Grammar Both abbreviations should be followed by a comma.
Fowler's Modern English Usage Commas do not usually follow i.e. (No comment on e.g.)



Nevertheless, even though I prefer the comma and have sources to back me up, they almost all use hedge words like “usually” and “preferred.” I've also been told that the commas are used less frequently in Britain, and the only style guide I found that advised against commas was Fowler's Modern English Usage, which has its roots in British English. The bottom line is that in American English, I recommend using a comma after i.e. and e.g. You could probably make an argument for leaving it out in some cases, but do so at your own risk. My personal rule is to use a comma every time.

Finally, I tend to reserve i.e. and e.g. to introduce parenthetical statements, but it's also perfectly fine to use i.e. and e.g. in other ways. You can put a comma before them, or if you use them to introduce a complete sentence that follows after another complete sentence, you can put a semicolon before them. You can even put an em dash before i.e. and e.g. if you are using them to introduce something dramatic. They're just abbreviations for words, so you can use them in any way you'd use the words in essence or for example.

That's all.

As always, this is Grammar Girl. You'll find a transcript at QuickAndDirtyTips.com, where you can also find other great podcasts like Modern Manners. This week he's talking about how to behave when you are interviewing for a job.

This week Connie, Ivy, and Jimmy in Texas, each win a copy of my downloadable audiobook, Grammar Girl's Quick and Dirty Tips to Clean Up Your Writing. The book is also available at iTunes and Audible.com.

If you want to call in with a grammar question, the number is 206-338-GIRL (4475) and you can send e-mails to feedback@quickanddirtytips.com.

Web Bonus

I like fun examples, so here are some extras that didn't make it into the show.

1. Our pet, Squiggly (i.e., the snail we brought home after the lab experiments were finished), loves to curl up on his little patch of grass.

2. Our pet snail, Squiggly, loves vegetation (e.g., grass, leaves, twigs).


Diversions

Grammarman Comic

Punctuation Man (no relation to Grammar Girl) will appear on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's popular 

weekend national-language program, "And Sometimes Y" on Saturday, May 5. The 30-minute program will air from 11:30 a.m. to noon in every time zone in the United States and Canada on CBC Radio One. Internet listeners may go to http://www.cbc.ca/listen/index.html at 11:30 in their time zone and select a location from the list to hear the broadcast.


* In hot water is an idiom that means “in trouble.”


Comments (52) for I.e. Versus E.g. |  Subscribe to Comment

Alex Says:
11/4/2008 5:40:19 PM
A good way to remember to use e.g. (I remember it as "example given")is when you do not want to list everything you are talking about - you're just giving one or 2 examples. i.e. is when you want to clarify.
Daniel Says:
11/2/2008 10:42:58 PM
People who cannot instantly recall both the Latin words and the English meanings of abbreviations, such as i.e., e.g., etc., should not use them at all. The purpose of language is communication. People who use words they don't know the meaning of are not communicating. They are showing off (the deficiencies in their education), and their writing suffers. Writing is nearly always improved when superfluous Latin abbreviations are replaced with their equivalent English phrases.
Frank Says:
8/23/2008 8:59:32 AM
I just think "in effect" for i.e. and "example given" for e.g.
Sheri Says:
4/17/2008 12:40:16 PM
I was looking back over your post of 9/29/2006. Shouldn't that be, Thanks, William!, and not, Thanks William!? I was taught you need the comma. I'm not sure my own posting is grammatically correct. Please feel free to correct, if necessary.
inluvwitgg Says:
4/16/2008 6:03:29 PM
Dave, is it necessarily so that it's plural? Wouldn't the e.g. apply to both, with the Latin (i.e., exemplum, exempli)implied by the following number of examples?
inluvwitgg Says:
4/16/2008 5:58:29 PM
GG, you are my replacement for James Kilpatrick. I loved his columns! Every year he devoted one to the placement of "only."
Dave Says:
3/29/2008 7:18:22 PM
Hi Grammar Girl! Why did you italicize in your transcript when you are advising against doin' so? For the sticklers it should be noted that e.g. is a plural an should be used with at least two examples; that is the "e" is for exempli not exemplum.
Fabian, Switzerland Says:
3/9/2008 6:24:50 PM
My English (English as a second language, of course) teacher told us "e.g." is an abbreviation of "example given". When he said that I had known before what it was actually an abbreviation for, but it's still good for memorizing, even for native speakers, I think.
Bill N Says:
3/7/2008 1:05:22 PM
Misusing these two abbreviations is one of the top five mistakes I used to see when editing technical documents. This should be "use to see".
Danielle Says:
2/26/2008 5:58:26 PM
If you begin a sentence with "i.e." or "e.g.," do you capitalize the first letter?
Alika Says:
2/14/2008 2:55:29 PM
Good gravy, thanks for doing the leg work on that comma chart! I've been a proofreader for years, but still have to look up these things from time to time. I'm going with the comma, despite the double punctuation. Thanks GG!
Liz Says:
11/15/2007 3:40:21 PM
great site
sarah Says:
10/25/2007 12:31:54 PM
this is like the coolest website, but i don't know how to use it!
Pat Says:
10/19/2007 11:53:57 PM
I use e.g. as "example given" and that is how I remember how to use it..:)
Grammar Girl Says:
5/5/2007 4:48:47 PM
Sorry! There was a typo in the link. I've fixed it for the two most recent episodes, and I will check the rest of the site tonight. -----
rip Says:
5/5/2007 4:36:50 PM
Congrats on your very sensible site. There is one thing, however, that I don't agree with. I know you didn't exactly recommend "in essence" as a good way to remember what "i.e." means, but still - I think "in essence" is actually misleading. Whereas "in essence" points to a condensed version of what has gone before ("the most basic and important part of something") and thus takes up *fewer* words than the previous wording, "i.e." is usually followed by an explanation - requiring *more* words than the previous wording, as in: “The film is only open to adults, i.e. people over 18.” [adults = 1 word/people over 18 = 3 words] Finally ... why is it you don't want to "burden" your readers with Latin? You don't have to be able to converse fluently in that language, but a few basic things are very helpful indeed, especially in relation to other languages, of course (French, Spanish and German mainly), but also to get a better grip on English if this is the language you want to stick with. One of these useful "things" is acquiring a feeling for common Latin roots, e.g. "-pend" in "depend", "append", "suspend". -----
uneasy rhetoric Says:
5/5/2007 4:42:20 AM
GG - still not working. Tried to download this latest version from the "Download the audio file" link and once again, no file
Ben Hickman Says:
3/28/2007 12:34:56 PM
I just found the answer to my own question in another chapter of New Hart's Rules: "In Oxford's style [i.e. and e.g.] are not followed by commas, to avoid double punctuation; commas are often used in US practice." -----
Ben Hickman Says:
3/28/2007 12:30:22 PM
I'm not sure whether this also applies to American English, but the 2005 edition of New Hart's Rules (published by Oxford press) says the following: "A comma is generally required after 'that is'. To avoid double punctuation, do not use a comma after i.e. and e.g." -----
Cas Says:
3/27/2007 3:49:30 AM
OK, I guess I'm not perfect. How do you get kids to use etc. instead of ect. in their composing? -----
Cas Says:
3/27/2007 3:46:29 AM
How do you get kids to spell use etc. instead of ect. in their composing? -----
katie Says:
3/24/2007 10:55:28 PM
Can you explain when to use quick and when to use quickly? -----
Cheryl Says:
3/22/2007 1:22:45 AM
Every English teacher I ever had told me that e.g. is followed by a comma but i.e. is not. Was the rule changed? -----
m2 Says:
3/18/2007 9:30:54 PM
love the format -----
PJC Says:
1/30/2007 9:46:42 PM
GG, I'm working through your podcasts and have a question on i.e. and e.g. While you mention each letter gets a period, you don't mention there is no space between the letter-period pairs. I checked m-w.com and found this is accepted practice. Also, I visited the USPS site and found "P.O. Box". I see you haven't covered the period yet. Is there a rule for abbreviations and periods? Keep up the good work. It is concise and valuable. Paul -----
Anna Says:
1/26/2007 7:08:38 PM
Have you done an episode on when to use further vs. farther? I always have a problem figuring out when to use each word. Thanks! -----
AC Says:
1/24/2007 4:16:29 PM
This podcast contained my number one pet peeve: pronouncing etc. "ex cetera" instead of "et cetera." -----
Mark B. Boen, J.D. Says:
1/23/2007 5:50:43 AM
I don’t agree with your use of parentheses when using the i.e. and e.g. I believe the parentheses here would act as some kind of italicizing and as such are not needed. Not that it is so much wrong as it is ‘cleaner’ without it. I also don’t agree with using a comma after i.e. or e.g. unless they’re used inside a sentence. Inside a Sentence Example: If I won the lotto, I would buy the fastest production car in the world i.e., the 2007 Bugatti Veyron 16.4, and drive it cross country. At the end of a Sentence Example: If I won the lotto, I would buy the fastest production car in the world i.e. the 2007 Bugatti Veyron 16.4. Lastly, I don’t agree that etc. is acceptable with using i.e. or e.g. I believe that when using i.e. in a sentence, i.e. is meant to be definitive. Therefore, i.e. means “that is,” not “that is and possibly more.” So, in your example “Steve hates most small furry animals (i.e., puppies, bunnies, etc.),” I would change it to read “Steve hates most small furry animals e.g. puppies, bunnies.” In fact, any time the writer believes an etc. would be beneficial, it screams for e.g. and not i.e. By the way, you spelled parentheses incorrectly. -----
Rick Kettell Says:
1/19/2007 9:09:35 PM
Regarding your posting titled, "E.G., I.E., Oh My," the ninth line under "Pickle Player," contains the phrase, "not to education them." The word "education" should be "educate." -----
Anne Says:
1/17/2007 6:10:03 PM
Hi - I have just discovered your podcast and was listening to past episodes. I have always though of e.g. as "example given" -- an expanded version of your "example." -----
Bruce Says:
12/19/2006 12:49:30 PM
GG, you say: 'You'd always put a comma after the words "for example" so you put a comma after the "e.g."' Is that really correct? I mean, consider the following two sentences: 'Lemons, for example, contain vitamin C.' Fruit, for example lemons, contains vitamin C.' The first sentence is certainly punctuated correctly, but what about the second sentence? The 'for example' points forward, not backward, and the phrase is equivalent to 'such as', which would not take a comma in this context. Do you demand the extra comma? -----
Grammar Girl Says:
12/1/2006 10:08:58 PM
The difference between "may" and "might" is very subtle. One source, for example, says that "might" indicates a smaller possibility than "may." So, if you think it is quite likely something will happen , then you would use "may;" whereas if you think there is only a remote possibility, you would say "might." Here are some references: http://www.miguelmllop.com/grammars/mygrammar/may.pdf (See page three.) http://www.mtannoyances.com/?p=136 http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/#39 -----
Matthew Says:
12/1/2006 9:32:18 PM
Just thought that I’d take a stab at using an id est statement that ends with et cetera: I listed the unpacked adjectives in the order that they were unpacked but later decided to shorten this list to three adjectives followed by “etc.” (i.e., frustrating, worst, soggy, etc.). Also, perhaps you could address the use of “might” and “may” in a future GG episode. Every time that I think I have the rules straight, I doubt myself. Cheers! -----
Grammar Girl Says:
11/27/2006 7:11:31 PM
Here are some links to other references that support using the periods after each letter, say you don't have to italicize, and make no mention of colons: http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/abbreviations/f/ievseg.htm http://www.wikihow.com/Use-'ie'-Versus-'eg' http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/e.html http://hubpages.com/hub/Grammar_Mishaps__ie_ve_eg See the episode on colons for an explaination of why you wouldn't follow "i.e." or "e.g." with a colon. -----
ABK Says:
11/25/2006 7:29:09 PM
I thought eg and ie were followed by a colon for the list. And I don't ue the periods after the letter and do italicize... any comments? -----
Sendhil Says:
11/24/2006 10:34:07 PM
One case where you might need to use the "i.e., list, etc." construct is in the case of an infinite list. E.g., "the triangular numbers (i.e., 1, 3, 6, etc.)". Of course, infinite lists don't arise too often outside of mathematics. Also, it might be more appropriate to conclude the provided members with an ellipsis ("...") or even an "et seq." rather than an "et cetera". (Or, if you believe numbers are people too, you might use "et al.") -----
robyn Says:
11/23/2006 1:58:49 AM
i'm an 8th grade language arts teacher looking to incorporate your podcasts into my class to help make writing and grammar "more" fun. keep up the good work! -----
Jesse Says:
10/30/2006 12:57:33 AM
I use "(I)n (E)ssence" to remember "i.e." It doesn't seem too far off-base. -----
jn Says:
10/28/2006 9:08:44 PM
I see that Andy already mentioned the mnemonic "(E)xamples (G)iven" for "e.g." I'd add that I kept them "e.g." and "i.e." distinct by also remembering "(I)s (E)xactly" as a mnemonic for "i.e." Finally, my junior-high Latin teacher would never forgive me if I didn't pass on her classic pronunciation of "ek-SEMM-plah GRAH-tee-ah" for the full "e.g." Thanks again for the podcast! -----
Sarah Says:
10/28/2006 3:32:31 AM
My personal memory device for i.e. is "in essence." I love your podcast! -----
Grammar Girl Says:
10/20/2006 1:36:08 AM
It's on the topic list! -----
brian d foy Says:
10/19/2006 11:38:46 PM
Along these lines, I frequently find myself editing the use of "like" to "such as". "Like" expresses a simile, whereas "such as" gives concrete examples of a group. With the simile, people might misinterpret the meaning because they can connect different objects in many different ways. Eating something like a chicken might mean you have to peck seeds off the ground. Eating something, such as a chicken, however, won't be embarrassing in a restaurant. -----
Bob Says:
10/19/2006 3:27:03 PM
When listening to this podcast, it sounds like you are pronouncing etc. as "ek cetera" with a k sound instead of et cetera. Maybe, I heard it incorrectly. But, since this is a very common mispronunciation of the latin phrase, it would be helpful if you would clarify the distinction for the masses. -----
Andy Says:
10/4/2006 7:43:58 PM
I was taught way back in school that a good way to remember e.g. was to think that it stood for 'example(s) given', followed by the list. I didn't think that i.e. was to be used to enumerate a list of examples, so it was easy (for me) to remember which one to sue. There, no latin to remember. -----
Grammar Girl Says:
9/29/2006 10:05:21 PM
William sent this in via MyChingo, but I posted it here because it is another excellent example, and I want you all to see it! Thanks William! -----
William Says:
9/29/2006 10:03:08 PM
I've found an instance where you should use "i.e." followed by a list, then "etc". I was writing a comment on the code in a site I was designing, and found that it should be used. it was this "h1 is the largest header, with smaller headers (i.e., h2, h3 etc) to be used a children ." the reason it is important to not use "e.x." is that you could misinterpret that to mean all other headers, while I only mean the h-followed-by-a-number headers. -----
Grammar Girl Says:
9/29/2006 4:58:53 AM
Thank you for writing! I see your point: "e.g." is acceptable, but your combination of "i.e." and "etc." makes your meaning more clear. -----
Grammar Girl Says:
9/29/2006 4:58:53 AM
Thank you for writing! I see your point: "e.g." is acceptable, but your combination of "i.e." and "etc." makes your meaning more clear. -----
Micah Says:
9/29/2006 4:56:56 AM
I just listened to your podcast on i.e. and e.g. You were wondering if one would ever need to use a list following i.e. that would then end with etc. Your point, which was a good one, was that to add etc. at the end of a list after i.e. would mean the same thing as e.g. I think I have found a counter-example, however. Note the following sentence: The books in the Deuteronomistic history (i.e. Joshua, Judges, etc.), are all infused with a similar ideology. I suppose your comment still hold, one could use e.g. here, but I think i.e. is more accurate, but one does not need to list all the book of the Deuteronomistic history. maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but I thought I'd give it a whirl. . . sincerely, Micah -----
Faith Says:
9/6/2006 12:33:48 AM
In 7th or 8th grade, my teacher gave an example on how to remember which to use. "i.e." can be imagined as meaning "in excess", and "e.g." sounds like the first sound in example. -----
GrammaMack Says:
8/28/2006 9:49:18 PM
Grammar Girl, your comma is in the wrong place: 1) Our pet, Squiggly, (i.e., the snail we brought home after the lab experiments were finished) loves to curl up on his little patch of grass. It should be: 1) Our pet, Squiggly (i.e., the snail we brought home after the lab experiments were finished), loves to curl up on his little patch of grass. -----
Grammar Girl Says:
8/28/2006 11:43:01 AM
Right you are! Thanks for pointing out the error. It is now fixed. -----

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