Episode Transcript

Serial Comma
Episode 66: July 13, 2007

Grammar Girl here.

Today's topic is the serial comma.

Here's a listener:

Hi, Grammar Girl. This is Patti from Houston...

Patti and her friends are debating about the serial comma—the comma that comes before the final conjunction in a list.  Here's a sentence that uses a serial comma: According to the Internet Movie Database, the top-grossing movies of all time in the United States are currently Titanic, Star Wars, and Shrek 2.

Whether to use the serial comma is a style issue, which is why Patti and her friends ended up in a debate.

Although the British are less likely to use serial commas than Americans (1, 2), primarily it's newspapers that allow writers to omit that final comma (1, 3). Newspapers are always looking to save space, and one argument for leaving the comma out is that it's unnecessary in simple sentences. Consider this sentence: According to the website Box Office Mojo, when ticket sales are adjusted for inflation, the top-grossing movies of all time in the United States are currently Gone with the Wind, Star Wars and The Sound of Music.

I didn't use a serial comma in that sentence, and there wasn't any confusion. That's the main argument against using the comma in every case—leaving it out often doesn't change anything. (And I apologize to the international listeners for using U.S. ticket sales in the example. I couldn't find inflation-adjusted numbers for worldwide box office sales.)
 
The serial comma is also sometimes called the Oxford comma because it's used by Oxford University Press or the Harvard comma because it's used by Harvard University Press, but I find these names misleading because so many other publications also use the serial comma.

Although the serial comma isn't always necessary, I favor it because often it does add clarity, and I believe in having a simple, consistent style, instead of trying to decide whether you need something on a case-by-case basis. I also think using the serial comma makes even simple lists easier to read. Really, unless space is incredibly expensive, I can't imagine why anyone would decide the best method is sometimes leave it out and sometimes add it in*.

The one thing everyone does seem to agree about is that you have to use the comma when leaving it out would create confusion, as is often the case when the items in the list have internal conjunctions or are complex in some other way (1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8). Here's a sentence that could mean different things with and without the final comma because one of the list items has an internal conjunction: Rebecca was proud of her new muffin recipes: blueberry, peanut butter and chocolate chip and coconut.

Without a serial comma, you wouldn't know whether the last recipe is a combination of peanut butter and chocolate chip or a combination of chocolate chip and coconut. You can make the meaning clear in two ways: place the final comma after peanut butter or after chocolate chip, or rewrite the sentence so that there is no ambiguity. 

If you want to say that the combination is peanut butter and chocolate chip, you can write blueberry, peanut butter and chocolate chip, and coconut, or if you insist on leaving out the serial comma, you can rewrite the list as peanut butter and chocolate chip, coconut and blueberry. But I still think the rewrite is more risky than the sentence with the serial comma because a reader who's just skimming the sentence could be tempted to think that coconut and blueberry is a combination.

Another case where leaving the comma out can be confusing is when the later items in the list can describe an earlier item. An oft-cited example is the made-up book dedication To my parents, Ayn Rand and God. A reasonable reader would assume there are four entities being thanked: mom, dad, Ayn Rand, and God; but without the serial comma you could also conclude that the two parents are Ayn Rand and God. A serial comma clears up any confusion: To my parents, Ayn Rand, and God

Finally, there are similar sentences where even a serial comma doesn't make the meaning clear. Consider this sentence: I went to see Zack, an officer and a gentleman.

Without the serial comma—I went to see Zack, an officer and a gentleman—it could mean that Zack is both an officer and a gentleman, or that I went to see three people: Zack, an unnamed officer, and an unnamed gentleman.

With the serial comma—I went to see Zack, an officer, and a gentleman—it could still mean two different things. It could mean I went to see three people (Zack, an unnamed officer, and an unnamed gentleman), or it could mean I went to see two people (Zack, who is an officer, and an unnamed gentleman).

So, the bottom line is that whether or not to use the serial comma is a style issue. Most publications except newspapers favor using it all the time, as do I, and all publications call for a serial comma when leaving it out could cause confusion. And sometimes sorting out your meaning is just too much for one little comma and the best option is to rewrite your sentence.

That's all.

I have an exciting announcement this week! My audiobook is coming out soon on a physical CD that you can buy in bookstores. Of course it will still be available to download from iTunes and Audible.com, but I know some people would rather have something they can hold in their hand or wrap up and give as a gift. It'll be available in all the major bookstores on July 24th, and you can already pre-order it online. I'll put a link at my website. QuickAndDirtyTips.com, and while you're there, be sure to also check out the other great Quick and Dirty Tips podcasts such as Money Girl. This week she's talking about how to avoid problems when you marry someone who has poor credit.

Also, for those of you who've asked, I am working on a paperback book, but those things take a really long time, so it probably won't be available until next year about this time.

Thanks for listening. My e-mail address is feedback@qdnow.com and if you want to leave a question for me to use in the show as Patti did, the number is 206-338-GIRL, 206-338-4475.

* I am aware that the final preposition could be left off the end of this sentence without changing the meaning. I considered leaving it off, but decided to write it this way because the timing is better when it is read aloud.

References

1.Wikipedia contributors. “Serial Comma,” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma (accessed July 10, 2007).

2. Quinion, M. “Oxford Comma,” World Wide Words, www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-oxf1.htm (accessed July 13, 2007).

3. Walsh, B. Lapsing Into a Comma. Chicago: Contemporary Books, 2004, p. 81.

4. The Chicago Manual of Style. Fourteenth Edition. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1993, p. 173, p. 661.

5. Shaw, H. Punctuate It Right. New York: Harper Paperbacks, 1993, p. 77.

6. Goldstein, N. ed. The Associated Press Stylebook and Libel Manual. Reading: Perseus Books, 1998, p. 270.

7. The American Heritage Guide to Contemporary Usage and Style. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 2005, p. 100.

8. “What is the Oxford comma?” Ask Oxford.com. www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutother/oxfordcomma?view=uk (accessed July 8, 2007).


Comments (14) for Serial Comma |  Subscribe to Comment

Adalia Says:
8/5/2008 1:44:39 PM
There are only a few instances in which you should use the serial comma: 1. When you absolutely have to (which you don't, by the way, as a simple re-wording of a sentence will usually solve any confusion), 2. When it's in a legal document (as said above by John Comeaux), or 3. When you're too stupid to view your own writing to determine if it will confuse someone else, or else too stupid to re-word your own bloody writing.
Megan Says:
12/4/2007 11:57:07 PM
As an Aussie who now teaches at an American school in Asia, I've only encountered the serial comma for the first time recently. We were taught that the comma is a replacement for 'and' in a list, leaving only the last 'and' to complete the list. I can see the advantanges of adding it but after 36 years of training, it's a difficult change.
Bob Says:
11/19/2007 9:12:29 PM
Use of the serial comma fulfills not only the careful editor's goal of clarity, but also the goal of consistency, something frustrated by its use only when required so as to avoid a potentially confusing "and" series.
Harry Says:
9/11/2007 10:08:33 AM
Remember a podgy US Senator named McCarthy? 'Reds Under Every Bed? What a jerk! He did the Brits a real favor by gifting us very talented writers persona non grata in Hollywood. Cy Endfield made 'Zulu', for me Britain's best movie ever (Michael Caine's first big movie). Cy stayed in the UK and died there, long after the US kissed and made up with Ruskie 'Reds'! Now it's Russian oil the Americans want. What a world!
Jamey Says:
8/13/2007 10:16:32 PM
I found this example today where using the serial comma could make a sentence kinda amusing: "Later, Romney cited Roosevelt as a source of inspiration — along with his father, Ronald Reagan and the Declaration of Independence." I'm still not sure if it'd mean Reagan is Romney's or Roosevelt's father. Then again, I find the whole sentence to be confusing the first time through. It could be read to mean that they all (Romney, his father, Reagan and the Declaration) all cited Roosevelt. -----
Misfit Comma Says:
8/3/2007 8:07:09 AM
As a former newspaper copy editor, I had to comment on the newspaper rule. Most U.S. newspapers and news services use style dictated by the Associated Press, which forbids the serial comma unless it's being used to set off a clause, but then it's not really a serial comma. It further indicates that serials requiring such a curled drop of ink be recast. Depending on the author, of course, sometimes that isn't possible because he or she cannot be asked about the original meaning or because the author is a "pet." The topic is an even bigger pain and a completely gray area if the writer is quoting another writer who did employee the mark. Also, as an FYI: Your example does not follow AP Style. "Web site" is two words with "Web" capitalized, according to the ruling body. But that isn't a constantly applied set of rules, for the official AP style is "webcam," "webmaster," and "webcast." Go figure. I think I'll end by noting that the Associated Press rarely conforms completely to its own style, but you probably noticed that from above. -----
John Comeaux Says:
7/21/2007 10:22:15 PM
You should always use a serial comma in legal documents. Imagine that your estate is willed to split equally between Tom, Dick and Harry. So, Tom gets 50% and Dick and Harry split 50%. That has actual legal precedence. -----
kristina Says:
7/18/2007 3:30:50 AM
As a freshman at my school, I'm grateful for Grammar Girl. So thanks
Aardvark Says:
7/17/2007 3:05:45 PM
aardvark will fix this for you. -----
Aardvark Says:
7/17/2007 3:04:45 PM
Dear Joshua, MIght not remember the aardvark? -----
Joshua Says:
7/17/2007 2:59:50 PM
See, what I mean? A millionth of a second after send, I saw a typo!! That should be "now" instead of "know." -----
Joshua Says:
7/17/2007 2:57:22 PM
I want to thank you for Grammar Girl. As a former journalist, I became too dependant on editors to fix my lazy mistakes. I now work in marketing, where I must be more vigilant. As far as serial commas, I am always reminded of the millionaire's will. The will stated that the inheritance of the money would be left to his children Joe, Sally and Sam. Joe sued successfully for 50% of the inheritance because it was written specifically "sally and Sam" as if they were one person. I might not remember the aardvark, but I will always remember the loss of large part of a million
David Says:
7/15/2007 5:49:52 PM
Thanks! -----
David Says:
7/15/2007 5:48:31 PM
Hi Grammar Girl, LOVE your show...You mentioned that you couldn't find "inflation-adjusted numbers for international box office." http://www.boxofficemojo.com is a good source for this stuff. By the way, though, the 3 movies you list as the top 3 of all time are correct, but these aren't the inflation-adjusted champs, they're the "actual" champs. Adjusted for inflation, the top 3 are Gone With the Wind, Star Wars, and The Sound of Music. Thanks, David -----

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