Episode Transcript

Appositives
Episode 141: October 17, 2008

Grammar Girl here.

Today’s topic is appositives. 

Guest-writer Bonnie Trenga writes,

Today we have to decide if information is essential or extra, because if it’s extra we’ll need some extra commas. The concept I’m referring to is called an appositive. A listener, Mary, raised this topic when she asked, “Is it OK to start a sentence with ‘A vocational counselor, Jane Smith, has agreed to help me get a job’? Is this OK or should it be ‘Vocational counselor, Jane Smith, has agreed to help me get a job’?” Well, Mary, yes in one case but no in another.

What Is an Appositive?

Before we get into the details of this fairly complicated topic, we need to find out what an appositive is. It’s a noun or a noun phrase that is placed next to another noun or noun phrase to help identify it (1). So at the beginning of this episode, I said, “a listener, Mary, raised this topic.” In this sentence, the subject is “a listener.” The name Mary is an appositive.

Essential or Extra?

Appositives can be essential information or extra information. Only appositives that are extra information get commas. The question now is whether the name Mary is essential or extra. The rule for appositives is that if the information is essential, you don’t use commas. If it is extra, you use extra commas (2). Remember: extra information, extra commas.

I’m sorry to tell you, Mary, but your name was not essential; that is why it was surrounded with commas. Of course your name is essential to you, but it’s not essential to that sentence. The sentence was about the fact that a listener—one of many—had a question about appositives. You could leave out the appositive and the sentence would still convey the same thought: “A listener raised this topic.”

Now, if this podcast had only one listener, the story would be different. If Mary were the only listener, and we're glad she's not, then the sentence would have to go like this: “Listener Mary asked about appositives.” It would be incorrect to put commas around her name because her name is essential identifying information. You couldn’t delete the appositive in this case because the sentence would not make sense. You couldn’t say, “Listener asked about appositives.”

Two Examples Explained

So let’s look at Mary’s example of the vocational counselor. It’s going to seem a bit confusing at first, but if you remember the phrase “extra information, extra commas,” then you should be able to get it. In fact, this might be a good episode to read again at the website. I’ll put up a variety of extra examples there.

Anyway, Mary suggested two different ways to express her thought about the vocational counselor. First was “A vocational counselor, Jane Smith, has agreed to help me get a job.” Second was “Vocational counselor, Jane Smith, has agreed to help me get a job.”

The first one, which starts with “A vocational counselor,” is a little tricky because there are two ways to interpret it. The first way is that “Jane Smith” is the subject and you’re giving extra information by telling us what her job is. “A vocational counselor” is therefore an appositive and it’s extra information. If they were in the middle of a sentence, the words “A vocational counselor” would be surrounded by commas, but since the phrase is at the beginning, you put only one comma, after the word “counselor.” The sentence therefore reads “A vocational counselor, Jane Smith has agreed to help me get a job.” You could delete the information about her job and it would still make sense: “Jane Smith has agreed to help me get a job.”

The second way to interpret this first example is that the subject is “A vocational counselor” and the appositive is her name. Then her name is extra information that needs to be surrounded by commas, so the sentence reads “A vocational counselor, Jane Smith, has agreed to help me get a job.” You could delete her name and the sentence would still make sense: “A vocational counselor has agreed to help me get a job.”

So you can see that either way is correct, depending on your interpretation of which is more important: that Jane Smith agreed to help you or that a vocational counselor agreed to help you.

The second vocational counselor example is easier. Thank goodness! Her example was actually incorrect. You can’t say, “Vocational counselor, Jane Smith, has agreed to help me get a job” because in this case the appositive, her name, is essential information. No commas needed. “Vocational counselor Jane Smith” is one job title, as is Inspector Jacques Clouseau of “Pink Panther” fame.

Appositives can be tricky, and commas are always tricky, so when faced with an appositive, you need to ask yourself: “essential or extra?” If the appositive is extra information and can be deleted without changing the meaning of the sentence, then you use commas. If it’s essential, then you don’t use commas. Remember that extra information needs extra commas. Be sure to check out some other examples at quickanddirtytips.com.

Administrative

This podcast was written by Bonnie Trenga, author of The Curious Case of the Misplaced Modifier, who blogs at sentencesleuth.blogspot.com, and I'm Mignon Fogarty, the author of the paperback book Grammar Girl's Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing.

Finally, if you'd like to submit a question for the Grammar Girl show, the voicemail line is 206-338-4475 and the email address is feedback@quickanddirtytips.com.

That's all. Thanks for listening.

References

1. American Heritage Guide to Contemporary Usage and Style. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 2005, p. 37.

2. Stilman, A. Grammatically Correct. Cincinnati: Writer's Digest Books, 2004, pp. 73-5. 

Web extra

Correct sentences [Dan, I don't know what's up with these bullets. You can just make them normal bullets.]

  • A vocational counselor, Jane Smith has agreed to help me get a job. Subject: Jane Smith. Appositive: A vocational counselor (extra information; therefore the comma)
  • A vocational counselor, Jane Smith, has agreed to help me get a job. Subject: A vocational counselor. Appositive: Jane Smith (extra information; therefore the commas)
  • Jane Smith, a vocational counselor, has agreed to help me get a job. Subject: Jane Smith. Appositive: a vocational counselor (extra information; therefore the commas)
  • The vocational counselor, Jane Smith, has agreed to help me get a job. Subject: The vocational counselor. Appositive: Jane Smith (extra information; therefore the commas)
  • Vocational counselor Jane Smith has agreed to help me get a job. Subject: Jane Smith. Appositive: vocational counselor (essential information; therefore no commas)
  • My favorite writer wrote many plays. The writer, William Shakespeare, lived in Elizabethan times. Subject: The writer. Appositive: William Shakespeare (extra information; therefore the commas)
  • The writer William Shakespeare wrote many plays. Subject: The writer. Appositive: William Shakespeare (essential information; therefore no commas)
  • A fine man, my husband tolerates my grammatical tirades. Subject: My husband. Appositive: A fine man (extra information; therefore the comma)
  • My husband, a fine man, tolerates my grammatical tirades. Subject: My husband. Appositive: a fine man (extra information; therefore the commas)

Cite This Article

APA Style

Trenga, B. (2008, October 16) Appositives. Grammar Girl's Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing. Retrieved [today's date], from <http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/appositives.aspx>

Chicago Style

Bonnie Trenga, “Appositives,” Grammar Girl's Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing, October 16, 2008, <http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/appositives.aspx> (accessed [today's date]).

MLA Style

Trenga, Bonnie. “Appositives.” Grammar Girl's Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing (accessed [today's date]).<http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/appositives.aspx>.


Comments (12) for Appositives |  Subscribe to Comment

Katie Says:
11/8/2009 4:57:39 PM
From the article: Appositives can be tricky, and commas are always tricky, so when faced with an appositive, you need to ask yourself: “essential or extra?” Isn't this an example of a run-on sentence?
Louise Says:
1/9/2009 12:19:44 AM
I am bookmarking this episode because I am constantly coming across this in my editing. I didn't even know there was a name for it before, so thanks, Grammar Girl!
Kris Says:
12/6/2008 10:22:28 PM
Beth, if you're talking about your own brother, then you would know how many brothers you have, no? I'm not trying to be snarky. I just don't really understand the problem. Can you give another example?
Kristal Says:
11/24/2008 2:48:56 PM
After listening to this podcast, Thanks to grammer girl I can say I do understand what appositives are and how to use them. I also know how to use esstential and extra commas thanks.:)
nicole Says:
10/28/2008 9:40:20 PM
i luv this podcast grammar girl!
aardvark Says:
10/23/2008 9:25:43 PM
Dear Sarahbell, Actually, there are many of us who do care about the rules. Trust me, as Grammar Girl's trusty friend, Aardvark, I know that it can be painful sorting through all of the grammatical references and examples provided by well-meaning listeners. Grammar Girl loves the debate. And yes, there have been some hilarious debates.
Teresa Says:
10/23/2008 12:30:33 PM
Regarding Appositives Episode 141: October 17, 2008 I think your answer and examples are incorrect. Am I missing something? You stated: Now, if this podcast had only one listener, the story would be different. If Mary were the only listener, and we're glad she's not, then the sentence would have to go like this: “Listener Mary asked about appositives.” It would be incorrect to put commas around her name because her name is essential identifying information. You couldn’t delete the appositive in this case because the sentence would not make sense. You couldn’t say, “Listener asked about appositives.” If Mary were the only listener, then “listener” is her identifying information, which would make her name nonessential. Your example isn’t correct. No, you couldn’t say, “Listener asked about appositives.” But you could say “Our listener asked about appositives.” You can’t always edit by just deleting something without sometimes rewording. If Mary were the only listener, your sentence should read “Our listener, Mary, asked about appositives.” If there is more than one of a category, you do not set off the identifying information with commas because the information is essential in order to figure out which one you mean: I have three sisters. My sister Ann is a furniture maker. If I said “My sister, Ann, is a furniture maker,” that is stating that “my sister is a furniture maker.” But I have three sisters. Which one am I talking about? You don’t know because that information is essential/restrictive, and therefore, can’t be set off with commas. I have one brother; therefore, I could write “My brother, Paul, is a cattle driver.” Chicago 5.29(15th ed) states it correctly and more clearly: Appositives Definitions and use. An appositive noun is one that immediately follows another noun or noun phrase in order to define or further identify it {George Washington, our first president, was born in Virginia} (our first president is an appositive of the proper noun George Washington). Commas frame an appositive noun unless it is restrictive—for example, compare Robert Burns, the poet, wrote many songs about women named Mary (poet is a non-restrictive appositive noun) with the poet Robert Burns wrote many songs about women named Mary (Robert Burns restricts poet by precisely identifying which poet (of many – my emphasis).
Sarahbell Says:
10/17/2008 4:40:13 PM
I think this website is freaking hilarious!! Firstly, I think some people take this WAY too seriously! I mean to get upset with GrammerGirl is ridiculous! Atleast she is trying to help others...I mean if people have an issue-why don't they start a website?! Okay, and secondly, do you really think people care what you have to say? Not really! BAHAHAHA! mmkay, so enjoy your days then!
Ben Says:
10/17/2008 12:31:35 PM
I think there's a problem with the second Shakespeare example: The writer William Shakespeare wrote many plays. Subject: The writer. Appositive: William Shakespeare (essential information; therefore no commas) It appears to me that, by including the word "The" before "writer", the name "William Shakespeare" becomes non-essential. In other words, the following sentence makes sense: The writer wrote many plays. Therefore "William Shakespeare" should be flanked by commas. That said, by removing the word "The" from the beginning of the sentence, you could make the name essential: Writer William Shakespeare wrote many plays. (It wouldn't make sense to write: Writer wrote many plays.) Am I correct here?
Len Says:
10/17/2008 12:22:58 PM
In your first example about the vocational counselor: “A vocational counselor, Jane Smith has agreed to help me get a job.” it might help if (in your head) you add some more text around the job. For example: “(in her role as) A vocational counselor, Jane Smith has agreed to help me get a job.”
Ivanhoe Says:
10/17/2008 9:44:37 AM
Dear, GrammarGirl.... Hi.. First, I would like to apologize for my grammar in advance. I'm not to blame though since I am a non-native speaker. My major concern when it comes to English relates to the correct choice of prepositions. I am a professional translator (Eng-Spa) and was requested to add some comments to a sheet of terms, but the task had to be in English. Problem arose as I had to prompt some replacement...it went like 'please, replace...' (the problem) with, for, or by? What should the correct preposition be for this verb?? Is there any site I can go to so I can learn more about this particular topic? I appreciate your dedication...
Beth Says:
10/17/2008 7:10:32 AM
What bothers me about appositives is that it seems sometimes you need more information than you have to know whether to use a comma. For instance, I edit a entence that reads," I went to the zoo with my brother Bill." If the writer has only one brother, this would be an appositive and a comma would be needed, right? But if he has three brothers, no comma would be needed as the name would be essential information. How am I supposed to punctuate this?

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