Episode Transcript

Chicago Style
Episode 23: November 02, 2006

Grammar Girl here.

Today's topics are style guides and how to deal with book titles.
Joe called in with this question:

With all of the style guides that are out there -- “APA,” “MLA” -- why would anyone use "Chicago"? I was finding it very hard to believe when I first looked at the “Chicago” style guide after the “APA” and “MLA” references that the “Chicago” style guide that was something that was used by anything less than a commercial writer. Possibly on someone's doctoral thesis, but for an undergraduate to have to deal with that kind of detail just seems ridiculous. Just wanting to hear your opinion on this.


The Chicago Manual of Style is one of the oldest and most comprehensive style guides on the market. The fact that it is so comprehensive can be both a strength and a weakness, and Joe points out the weaknesses: it can take a while to find what you are looking for, and the size of the book can be intimidating to students. Nevertheless, I find it indispensable because it has so much information that I can't find anywhere else.

The way I work is that I usually reach for the Associated Press Stylebook first because it's short and clear, so it is easy to find things if they are included. But, I often have to go to Chicago to find things that aren't included in AP. For example, I started with AP, but then went to Chicago to find out how to deal with a shortened book title, because in his question Joe shortened the Chicago Manual of Style to simply Chicago (and I learned that you treat it just as you would a regular title, and italicize it, or in the case of Grammar Girl style, it goes in quotes because listener questions are already italicized). It turned out that the MLA Handbook for Writers of Research Papers also had a section on shortened book titles, so in this case I could have looked there next and found the answer, but often I just jump to Chicago because I know the answer will always be there.

Another example of something I could only find in Chicago is how to handle punctuation in bulleted or numbered lists. I couldn't quickly find anything on this subject in MLA or AP, but it is covered in Chicago.

These types of questions might seem arcane, but for me they come up every day, and I imagine that they would come up at least occasionally for other writers, including undergraduates. Chicago also has an excellent index that I find more helpful than the strictly alphabetical layout of some other style guides because it doesn't leave me wondering if I couldn't find what I wanted just because it was was listed in some way that I hadn't considered. For example, would shortened book titles be under “book titles,” or “shortened book titles,” or “titles,” or something else?

Style guides also have different uses. For example, the Associated Press Stylebook is primarily for writers who work at newspapers or news magazine; the MLA Handbook for Writers of Research Papers is obviously for writers of research papers, and it's used most commonly in the liberal arts and humanities. Writers of research papers in the sciences, on the other hand, may be more likely to use the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association or American Medical Association Manual of Style  If I had to peg down The Chicago Manual of Style, I'd say that its primary audience is book authors, but as you might have gathered by now, I think Chicago is great for everyone.

Again, this may all seem arcane, but it is good to have the right style guide for the right purpose, and also to know what the other style guides advise. For example, last week when I was looking for as many ways as possible to use quotation marks, I used AP style to say that book titles can go in quotation marks. A lot of people wrote in to say that was wrong because almost all the other style guides say book titles should be either italicized or underlined. I'm guessing that most of the people who wrote in aren't familiar with AP style, and there's really no reason they should be. So, even though it isn't wrong, I probably should have clarified which style guide I was using because there are differences between the style guides (and especially because AP is in the minority by saying to use quotation marks).

And, Travis from Omaha, Nebraska, asked an interesting question related to book titles. He wanted to know what to do when the style says that titles should be underlined but you are writing for the web, where underlined words look like links. First, it's pretty easy to avoid this problem because most style guides say that you should italicize titles or put them in quotation marks. If the style is absolutely emphatic, for example if you're following the style of a medical journal for referencing citations and it has to be underlined, then underline it and hope for the best. Otherwise, pick a style that is more web-friendly and either italicize the title or put it in quotation marks.

I think that style guides are evolving in response to the web to deal with problems like this anyway. For example, my copy of the MLA (the fifth edition) says to underline titles and doesn't give the option of italicizing, but I found an online reference that says the sixth edition recommends either underlining or italicizing book titles, so I suspect style guides are evolving in response to the specific problems with underlining on the web.

And, here's an interesting side note: underlining text is a way to tell typesetters that you want them to set the words in italics. So, if you are writing in a way that italics aren't possible, such as writing something by hand or if you are really retro and are using a typewriter, then you underline the text that would have otherwise been italicized.

Links

I found another online style guide to add to those I found for "Episode 11: I'm So Stylish": The University of Minnesota Style Manual.


Comments (13) for Chicago Style |  Subscribe to Comment

IRT Magazine Says:
9/16/2009 4:08:54 PM
Hey, do you know of an abridged or "Cliff's Notes" version of the CMoS?
Laura Says:
9/3/2009 7:59:40 PM
what is the "grammar rule" for "I want, she wants, they want, he wants." What is the rules called and what is the explanation for including and excluding the "s" at the end of "want." Thanks!
Blaine Says:
4/21/2009 11:47:20 AM
I love Grammar Girl!!! she teaches me soooooo much!!!!!! & she knows so much about Grammar!!!!!! whoooo hoooo to GrammmarGirl!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!
Amy Says:
2/13/2008 10:48:45 PM
Grammar Girl, I'm a bit colon-confounded. In your post on November 26, 2006, You made the following statement: And, here's an interesting side note: underlining text is a way to tell typesetters that you want them to set the words in italics. As I understand them, both Chicago and AP styles suggest you begin a complete clause after a colon with a capital letter, but, as in this case, I frequently see a lower case instead. Does another manual dictate otherwise? Is my info outdated? Is this posting? Please help. Thanks!
Christine R Says:
12/9/2007 5:43:41 PM
I agree with your comments re: Chicago and with Ken's re: the variety of styles, but can't agree that AP is an appropriate first reference choice unless one works at a newspaper or magazine. Its rules were created for speed of typsetting and possibly to reduce the amount of ink used (that little serial comma adds up over time, I guess)--not for clarity of expression. My first choice for business writing is Sabin's Gregg Reference Manual, though I happily to check out other guides, too.
rani makherji Says:
11/18/2007 3:48:34 AM
good information
Tolak Says:
9/20/2007 6:21:08 AM
Interesting your take on different styles, and how they conflict with other standards. For a book title, you prefer quotes, whereas Chicago prefers italics, and some may have to use underline. The idea of using underline is still good, since the link created (in the web style) can be used to expand the reference, thereby being in keeping with both the medical and web styles. For contributor’s comments, you use italics, in preference to quotes, yet you are literally quoting their comments. Not quite sure how that is preferable. Please excuse this nit-pickiness; I would prefer to get the styles to converge, and hence simplify things, unless a good reason can be found. Oh, and for typewriters, etc, I would tend to use the HTML-esque [Italic] and [/Italic] construct. But since my writing is so bad, I doubt I would bother with a manuscript! :) Thanks, Tom
Glenda Brown Rynn Says:
1/23/2007 5:17:36 AM
Has anyone called to your attention the misplaced modifier you have in your third paragraph in your posting of 11/1/2006, after the writer's question about Chicago Style? You wrote "Another example of something I could only find in Chicago is how to handle punctuation in bulleted or numbered lists." You should have written "Another example of something I could find only in Chicago...." It's not that you could only FIND it but not use it or understand it, etc. The adverb "only" was not meant to modify the verb "find" but the prepositional phrase "in Chicago." In my observations, people commonly misplace "only." Glenda Brown Rynn
Kenneth W. Davis Says:
11/9/2006 2:24:57 AM
Great question, Lilyz; lots of my students ask it. The MLA is the Modern Language Association, the main organization for professors of English and other, well, modern languages. MLA style is a set of conventions adopted by the MLA for scholarly writing in its members' disciplines. Because many professors are familiar with MLA style, they tend to require it in their students' academic writing. In my own scholarly writing, I use MLA style, and I ask my literature students to use it as well. In my own business writing, I use Alred and others' Business Writer's Handbook, and I ask my business writing students to use it as well. In English-speaking countries, there's no central authority that dictates rules for writing. I think that's a good thing. --Ken
Lilyz Says:
11/8/2006 3:12:13 AM
Dear Grammar Girl, As a current freshman undergrad, I have been introduced to the MLA writing style and rules. For some reason, I feel the MLA rules are opposite of the rules I was taught in elementary school many years ago and goes against the business writing styles I have been using for years. Where did the MLA originate and why is it now being taught in college instead of elementary school? Thank you.
Liz Says:
11/4/2006 3:20:58 PM
Thanks for sticking up for the Chicago Manual of Style! I bought the 15th edition two years ago and can't imagine life without it. I'm studying history, and Chicago is what we use almost exclusively. I was surprised, though, that you didn't mention Kate Turabian's "Manual for Writers of Term Papers, Theses, and Dissertations," which is the same essential style but in a much more condensed format.
Grammar Girl Says:
11/3/2006 4:05:57 PM
All of my dictionaries include a definition for "done" that is equivalent to "finished." Also, various online references say that the two words are interchangeable. (http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/#97, http://www.udel.edu/eli/questions/g05.html) On the other hand, there are online sources that say the words are not interchangeable. Also, although Fowler's "Modern English Usage" doesn't address the question directly, it says that "do" is one of the most complicated verbs in the English language, so I will do more research before committing to an answer in the show.
Tiswell Says:
11/3/2006 3:31:00 PM
Please address the use of "done" to mean "finished." Isn't "done" meant to be a passive state as in the meat in the oven is "done." Whereas, "finished" connotes an activity or state of being that has come to a conclusion. Please help, this bugs me no end, and the Grammar Girl is guilty too!

Add Comment

 *
 *
 *
  Image to deter spam submissions
  To deter spam submissions, please type the letters from the image into the box below:
 *
 
  Fields marked with "*" are required