Episode Transcript

Dashes
Episode 28: November 30, 2006

Grammar Girl here.

Today's topic is dashes.

Scott from the Twentyhood podcast; David from Cliffside Park, New Jersey; Cade, who is a recent communication design graduate; and listeners named Josh and Matt all asked about dashes in the last few months. But what really pushed me over the edge to choose this topic was a question from Jeff in Centerville, Virginia. Jeff listened to the last episode about colons and then asked if it would be OK to use a dash instead of a colon in the example sentence. The example was "Grammar Girl has two favorite Thanksgiving dishes: green-bean casserole and stuffing," and yes, Jeff, you could definitely replace the colon in that sentence with a dash.

The difference between a colon and a dash is really subtle: they can both serve to introduce a related element after the sentence, but a dash is a stronger and more informal mark than a colon. Think of a colon as part of the sentence that just ambles along. "Grammar Girl has two favorite Thanksgiving dishes [and, now I'm going to tell you what they are, colon] green-bean casserole and stuffing." A colon informs readers that something more is coming along.

A dash, on the other hand—well, it's quite a dramatic thing. A dashing young man is certainly not an ordinary young man, and if you're dashing off to the store, you're not just going to the store, you're going in a flurry. A dash interrupts the flow of the sentence and tells the reader to get ready for some important or dramatic statement. If you added a dash to the Thanksgiving sentence it would conceptually read something like this: "Grammar Girl has two favorite Thanksgiving dishes [wait for it; wait for it; dash] green-bean casserole and stuffing." Wow!

Given that there isn't really anything exciting about my favorite dishes, a dash might not be the best choice here, but it wouldn't be wrong. It would be a better choice if that sentence were part of a mystery novel where green bean casserole was missing, and Grammar Girl was implicated as the thief. Then it could be a dramatic announcement that I love green-bean casserole, and a dash would make more sense.

And here's a very important rule about dashes: never, never, never use a hyphen in place of a dash. A hyphen is not a junior dash; it has its own completely separate use that I'll talk about at some point in the future, but I can't talk about dashes without telling you not to use hyphens when you should use dashes. If for some reason you can't insert the dash symbol, use two hyphens right next to each other: hyphen hyphen [--]. You'll save an editor or typesetter from having a mild fit. I feel bad because I've lost track of the name, but one listener wrote in to say that he or she actually feels a little ill when confronted with a hyphen used as a dash.

Also, you may have heard of two different kinds of dashes: em dashes and en dashes. An em dash is longer than an en dash. Those might seem like strange names, but they make sense when you realize that the em dash is as long as the typeset letter M and the en dash is as long as the typeset letter N.

The em dash is the kind of dash I was talking about before; it is the kind of dash you use in a sentence (1). When people say, “Use a dash,” they almost always mean the em dash.

The en dash is used much less frequently and usually only to indicate a range of inclusive numbers. You would use an en dash to write something like Squiggly will be on vacation December 2 to December 9, where the to between the dates is an en dash and indicates that Squiggly will not be in the office starting the 2nd of December and will return on the 10th of December (because an en dash indicates that the numbers are inclusive of those two dates).

Whether you are using the longer em dash in a sentence or the shorter en dash to indicate an inclusive range, there are no spaces between the dash and the words around it. This is actually a style issue, so you should consult a style guide if your company or teacher has one, but I recommend using no spaces.

There's even more to say about dashes, but I'll save that for another day. Also, I just noticed that my word processor automatically inserts an en dash when I type two hyphens. Arggg. The horror! I've read in some places that newspapers or certain typographers prefer en dashes because they are shorter (2,3), so this could be a style issue, but in general most style guides call for the longer em dash (4,5,6), and I think the word processor is just wrong! Be warned that you may have to fight your computer on this one.

That's all. As always, this is Grammar Girl. I have another book to give away. This time the winner is Aileen S., and I'll be mailing out her book, The Pinocchio Intermediate Vocabulary Builder by Mark Phillips, this week. This book is similar to the last one in that Mark took the book Pinocchio, which is in the public domain, and adapted it to include a bunch of words that people study for the scholastic aptitude test (also called the SAT). So you get to read the story of Pinocchio and learn the words in context along the way, and all the words are defined on the page where they are used. So again, it's a really clever concept, and thanks to Mark Phillips for donating the book, which will also be available for sale on the Grammar Girl web site at quickanddirtytips.com.

I have two more books from Mark Phillips to give away, so you can all look forward to that, and if there are any publishers out there who want to donate books that I can give away, please e-mail me at feedback@quickanddirtytips.com or call the voicemail line at 206-338-GIRL (4475). I won't give away just any random book, but if you have something you think Grammar Girl listeners would truly enjoy, then I'd be happy to do a giveaway.

Finally, you can find a complete transcript of this podcast at the Grammar Girl section of QuickAndDirtyTips.com. Also, thank you to Steve Thornton from British Columbia for help on preparing the transcript for this episode.

References

  1. The Chicago Manual of Style. Fourteenth edition. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1993, p. 5, p. 107.
  2. Wikipedia contributors. "Dash." Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, November 27, 2006 <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dash&oldid=90376898> (accessed November 29, 2006).
  3. Sheerin, P. K. The Trouble With EM ’n EN (and Other Shady Characters), October 19, 2001 <http://alistapart.com/articles/emen/> (accessed November 29, 2006).
  4.  Faigley, L. The Little Penguin Handbook. New York: Pearson Education, 2006, p. 233.
  5.  Aaron, J. E. The Little, Brown Essential Handbook. Fifth edition. New York: Pearson Education, 2006, p. 84.
  6. The Chicago Manual of Style. Fourteenth edition. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1993, p. 5, p. 105.

Comments (46) for Dashes |  Subscribe to Comment

Kit Says:
7/17/2007 12:39:10 AM
Hi Grammar Girl!

I happened to stumble upon your podcast yesterday and thought I'd listen to it. I downloaded all of the episodes and i decided to subscribe to it. I'm just a blogger and this would really help me in many ways. I also like the girl-with-glasses art cover or something. It's so chic! I do art stuff also, so I was thinking of doing one for you on my spare time. Thanks Grammar Girl! Be safe!

Kit
Manila, Philippines
Comen Says:
5/21/2007 8:01:45 PM
There are three forms of punctuation that offset one portion of a sentence from the rest, colons, semicolons, and em-dashes. Each has a specificfunction, and knowing the rules can help you write clearer interruptions.

Colons Colons are most often used for definitions. One side of the colon has the word or phrase to be defined, and the other side contains the definition or clarification. Use a colon in place of a verb or the words “for example,” and when both sides of the colon contain fragments (incomplete sentences).

The keys to good cooking: fresh ingredients and simplicity. Three of my favorite early composers: Josquin, Perotin, and Palestrina. Getting Smart: Using Purple People Plotters. Don't use a colon between a verb and its object.

The keys to good cooking are fresh ingredients and simplicity. Three of my favorite early composers are Josquin, Perotin, and Palestrina. Use a colon when you provide a list of definitions (but not in a table). Lots of folks use em-dashes in lists, but as you'll read in a minute, em-dashes aren't appropriate in such a use.

Early Music: a classification of western, or European, music from before 1750 A.D. Contemporary Music: a classification of western, or European, music within 50 years of the present period. A capital letter follows the colon only when the word is a proper noun, when the phrase is part of a title, or when what follows is a complete sentence. It's optional to capitalize the complete sentence (the third instance), considered a fairly “modern” usage.

Early composers: Josquin, Perotin, and Palestrina. Getting Smart: Using Purple People Plotters for Productivity Plusses We are at an impasse: We must fight or flee. Use a colon to introduce lengthy quoted material. The quoted material can be part of the same sentence and paragraph as the introduction, or it can precede a paragraph (or several) of quoted material. You don't need quotation marks before a long quotation. (Short quotations need a comma and quotation marks, no colon.)

The clever editor said: It is important not to distract from what you've written by how you've written it. (This sentence could comfortably also go the way of a comma and quotation marks.) The clever editor said:

It is important not to distract from what you've written by how you've written it. Whatever follows a colon refers back to what immediately preceded it. Be sure that in a list, each element is grammatically consistent with the lead-in and colon.

There are three main points: The top of the Purple People Plotter must be bare. The plug must be firmly connected to an electrical source. The object to be plotted must be renderable in purple. Notice that there are periods after those list elements: Periods belong only after complete sentences. If your list elements are not complete sentences (not including the lead-in), don't use a period. Each of ... http://blogs.officezealot.com/
Hamzeh Says:
5/15/2007 10:20:51 AM
hi , grammar girl I just wanna thank u for the vast amount of information you gave it to me ,and to all your listeners around the world.Tomorrows is my English exam , and i don't know what to do without you. so thank you again and keep this great job. oh yah i just wanna ask u about this vs these ? when do we use them . I always mix up with them Hamzeh from Jordan.
Bill Says:
4/17/2007 4:23:46 PM
Love the blog and podcast! Keep up the good work.
Wondering Says:
4/12/2007 3:19:03 AM
Hey I am in grade 10 and I was just wondering some things. What are the rules when using parenthesis, and brackets (what is the difference between the two?) Secondly what are the rules when using dashes and hyphens (again what is the difference between the two). I would really appreciate an answer!!!!!

Thanks
Linda Says:
3/28/2007 12:23:22 AM
Hi GG, New listener. Saw you on Oprah yesterday. Fantastic site!

Found an error you might want to address regarding the word "dash" located in the last sentence of the paragraph I copied below. The audio uses the word "colon", but the word "dash" is printed. No big deal, just thought you might want to know.

Thanks for the great site!

Given that there isn't really anything exciting about my favorite dishes, a dash might not be the best choice here, but it wouldn't be wrong. It would be a better choice if that sentence were part of a mystery novel where green bean casserole was missing, and Grammar Girl was implicated as the thief. Then it could be a dramatic announcement that I love green-bean casserole, and a dash would make more sense.
Barbara Says:
3/27/2007 5:01:18 PM
Hello, I wish there was someone like you when I was in school. I'm older but enjoy learning everyday. I learned about you on the Oprah show and did a search in google. This site is awesome, and I passed it along to my daughter who is in her junior year in college. Is my comment grammatically correct? Thanks
Ed Says:
2/9/2007 8:02:58 PM
I discovered the Grammar Girl pod cast somewhat late so I am only up to the dash episode. My question is, are dashes and parentheses interchangeable when one wants to add an aside in the middle of a sentence?
To borrow a sentence from Tom's comment above, instead of "If you omit the spaces (typing "textdashdashtext") you'll get an em dash instead." could I write, "If you omit the spaces–typing "textdashdashtext"–you'll get an em dash instead."

Using the dashes seems incorrect to me, but I work with other writers who almost always use dashes where I would use parentheses.

Thanks. Love your pod cast.
charla Says:
1/9/2007 11:05:05 PM
I love the music but that sound affect may be the actual issue. It scares the bejesus out of my dug (that's east coast for dog.) just a thought.
Tim Says:
1/9/2007 5:22:32 AM
Hello,

I enjoy your pod casts. In your "dashing" episode you compared en and em dashes to the widths of an N and M. That has become the traditional explanation but the terms originate from the typographic units of measure "en" and "em."

An em is "properly defined as simply the current point size. For example, in 12-point type, em is a distance of 12 points." An "en" is "more properly defined as half the width of an em."

The information quoted above is from the Adobe website: http://www.adobe.com/type/topics/glossary.html
gwynneth Says:
1/8/2007 6:44:00 AM
great job
Shannon Says:
1/5/2007 9:20:54 PM
FYI - microsoft word does automatically create an em-dash from two hypens next to each other, but only when there is no space on either side - just like you presumed in your podcast!
Grammar Girl Says:
12/15/2006 4:06:31 PM
Cool! Thanks.
Mike Raynham Says:
12/15/2006 11:45:48 AM
On a Windows PC it is possible to access characters that are not standard keys on a QWERTY keyboard. To do this, hold down CTRL and ALT, and type the four digit ASCII code for the character you require. This avoids relying on your editor to interpret your dashing desires. Being a plain text email type of a guy, I find these very useful. To see the ASCII code for the character you wish to type, open the Character Map utility:

Start > All Programs > Accessories > System Tools This is for Windows XP. I am not sure of the location under other versions of Windows, but it is available somewhere.

This utility displays all the characters available in a font. Select the character you want to insert, and the required keystroke will be displayed in the bottom right corner of the window. Here are the keystrokes for dashes, and some of my most commonly used keystrokes:

Alt+0150: En Dash (–) Alt+0151: Em Dash (—) Alt+0169: Copyright Sign (©) Alt+0174: Registered Sign (®) Alt+0176: Degree Sign (°) Alt+0188: One Quarter (¼) Alt+0189: One Half (½) Alt+0190: Three Quarters (¾)

I guess this functionality is also available on Macs.
Courtney D Says:
12/13/2006 8:58:09 PM
I didn't know the difference between an M and an N dash, but I was still using M dashes all the time between datelines and leads in press releases. I use a really great shortcut - CTRL+ALT+keypad -. The keypad dash is essential; using the - betweeen the 0 and the = keys is the shortcut for changing your cursur.
jo Says:
12/11/2006 3:10:35 AM
Thanks! I didn't say before, but I've really enjoyed reading your articles. I'm going to send my English and journalism students your way, too. :)
Grammar Girl Says:
12/8/2006 5:42:47 PM
That is so cool! Get the girl a mic! (The recording software I use is called Audacity, and it is free. Also, I understand that Macs come with recording software already installed.)
Grammar Girl Says:
12/8/2006 4:13:35 PM
Hi Eric,

I'm glad you are enjoying the show!

How interesting that they have changed the name of the SAT! Thank you for letting me know (but now I feel old). Also, thank you for the clear explaination of how to make dashes in Word.

Regarding titles, capitalization is a style issue, and I use a relatively unpopular style. I did an episode on the topic a few months ago (Title Cap Capers) that included a poll, and the vast majority of people agree with you.

As a side note, does anyone know of a free polling tool that lets you have more than one poll active at a time? I'd like to keep the old polls active, but my current provider limits me to just one.
Eric Bailey Says:
12/8/2006 3:44:45 PM
Hi there--first, I want to thank you for this. I am also a grammar freak, so I love to see that someone is taking the time and making the effort to try to remedy the tragedy that is American grammar. That said, I have two quick comments that stem from listening to the "Dashing Through the Snow" podcast: one is a correction, and the other is simply a tip.

First, here is the correction: SAT no longer stands for Scholastic Aptitude Test. (I know this because I used to teach an SAT prep class, and this is one of the points we would make.) This was changed because there was at least one reputable study done that showed there was a 25% correlation of SAT score to collegiate performance. Therefore, there is no way to say that the SAT tests aptitude. So now ETS just calls it the SAT Reasoning Test, and the "SAT" does not stand for anything. I just thought you should know.

Second, I thought I would point out a tip to you (or you could pass this along to your users if you do not use MS Word) regarding em and en dashes. In Word, in order to automatically insert an em dash, you type the first word, two dashes, and the second word, all without spaces between them (e.g.: word--word). This will then be automatically corrected to an em dash. To insert an en dash, you type the first word, insert a space, type two dashes, insert a space, and type the second word (e.g.: word -- word). This will be automatically corrected to an en dash, and you can remove the spaces afterwards. This is true in Word 2000, XP, and 2003. I do not know if it is true in earlier versions.

As a postscript, I have another correction: I am slightly irked that you capitalized "the" in the title of this transcript ("Dashing Through The Snow"). I have noticed a lot of people do this, but unless something has changed, I believe it is still wrong to capitalize articles and most prepositions in titles if they are not the first word. If I am wrong about this, please let me know. (As tone is not able to be sent through typing, please know that I am saying this with the utmost respect and trying to be neither snooty nor snotty, as Ferris Bueller [posing as Abe Froman] might say.)
Alex Says:
12/7/2006 1:47:25 AM
Is anyone else having trouble playing these podcasts in Windows Media Player? Anyone have a way to fix it?
Grammar Girl Says:
12/6/2006 6:57:51 PM
My general advice is to be as clear and succinct as possible.

It's also often a good idea to avoid absolute words in technical writing. For example, when making your conclusions it is usually better to say "the results in this case show that..." as opposed to "our experiments prove that..." because only rarely have your experiments provided absolute proof of something. The results of a single experiment are usually only one piece of a much bigger puzzle.
Grammar Girl Says:
12/6/2006 6:52:53 PM
Thanks Jennifer! "Further" versus "farther" is on the topic list for future episodes.
Grammar Girl Says:
12/6/2006 6:51:02 PM
Thank you so much!
Grammar Girl Says:
12/6/2006 6:47:08 PM
I still can't replicate the problem. If you still can't get the player to work, you can download the audio file directly by going to the following web address:

http://ripple.radiotail.com/539/grammar028_dash.MP3
Jennifer Says:
12/6/2006 6:29:18 PM
Thanks so much for the great podcasts! I am a new listener so forgive me if I am making a request that has already been covered, but please, please, please give us a good reason for the differences between "further" and "farther." I have an actual degree in English achieved, somehow, without ever having to take a class in grammar. Courses in linguistics--yes, grammar--no. I can safely say that I know most of the rules intuitively, but no matter how many times I look up "further" and "farther" in the dictionary, I can't keep them straight the next time I go to use one in a sentence. I am sure I choose the correct word about one in every two times, but I use them on an almost daily basis! Help! I must look like an idiot to the masses. Is there something that can cure this disease with which I am inflicted? Thank you
Grammar Girl Says:
12/6/2006 5:01:37 PM
Nothing has changed with the site or the podcast. I can't see the same problem you are seeing, but I will try to look into it. (If any of you technologically gifted people out there have any ideas, please post them here.)
Scott Johnson Says:
12/6/2006 4:40:42 PM
Hi, I am an 8th grade teacher using this RSS and website with my students, but as of today and yesterday, the area under listen is blacked out. Is this an error or is there a subscription we have to pay? How do we listen? Thanks!

Scott Johnson
Sallie Goetsch Says:
12/6/2006 2:48:55 PM
I've just started listening and particularly appreciated this episode as I have a book client who is an absolute dashaholic. Half my job editing her book is replacing the dashes with periods, commas, colons, and semicolons as appropriate.

Keep up the good work, Sallie
David Noble Says:
12/5/2006 9:41:31 PM
Hi. I'm really enjoying your series of podcasts. I am a teacher in Scotland and I produce my own fortnightly Ed-tech podcast at http://booruch.libsyn.com. In this weeks show (EPR #31 - out on Friday), I review your podcast. It will also be included in the Education Podcast Directory that I organise, at www.podcastdirectory.org.uk.
lisa Says:
12/5/2006 4:02:25 PM
Thanks GG for the link. I hadn't thought to just look it up on Amazon. I assumed it wasn't being printed anymore.

By the way, my 7-year old daughter has started listening to your podcast and loves it! She keeps asking me to record a podcast of her own. You are an inspiration!
Grammar Girl Says:
12/4/2006 6:44:15 AM
You can see my reply (and the subsequent discussion) in the comments section for the colon episode:

http://grammar.qdnow.com/2006/11/23/rollin-rollin-colon.aspx#comment-189602
DesignDroide Says:
12/4/2006 4:15:46 AM
I have trouble with technical writing, such as a pre-lab write up. do you have suggestions on the manor of writing.
jo Says:
12/3/2006 3:07:39 PM
Oops. Let me give those with spaces. That was & # 8211 ; for the em dash, & # 8211 ; for the en. =)
jo Says:
12/3/2006 3:05:37 PM
Scott, You can use — for the em dash and — for the en.

And Grammar Girl, I have to ask about your use of the comma in the example sentence. You list only two items, so why did you use the comma after "green bean casserole"? :O
Grammar Girl Says:
12/2/2006 5:26:48 AM
You've done it right in your example. "Therefore" is a conjunctive adverb. See the section on semicolon usage on this page for more information: http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/
Grammar Girl Says:
12/2/2006 5:19:10 AM
Cool! Here's a link to the book: The Mac Is Not A Typewriter
DesignDroide Says:
12/2/2006 2:51:58 AM
I.E. The car was stuck in the snow; therefore, Mike and Cindy had to walk to the store.

How do I know where to use the correct word in the situation?
lisa Says:
12/1/2006 11:41:58 PM
Scott- I hear you loud & clear about 2 spaces after the period. I am a graphic designer myself and that just bugs me. I search and replace two spaces with one, of course I don't tell the copy writers. I used to have a book called "The Mac is NOT a Typewriter" that addressed these style issues. It was great, I wish I still had it!
Grammar Girl Says:
12/1/2006 9:55:41 PM
You're right! There is also something called an em space. Wikipedia has a great article on spaces. (It contains more than you ever thought you would want to know about spaces.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_character

I don't understand what exactly your question is about using an adjective connector with a semicolon.
Grammar Girl Says:
12/1/2006 9:51:47 PM
Thank you!
Scott from twentyhood Says:
12/1/2006 2:53:56 PM
Hey GG, thanks for taking care of one of my questions! I feel like I changed the world. (even though I am more curious about hyphens, but that's not the point). Anyway, I'm a graphic designer so I get a lot of practice spotting En and Em dashes, and have become a bit of a stickler as of late because I actually looked up their usage. Does anyone know how to get an En dash on the web? In Dreamweaver, you can insert an Em dash as a special character, but not En. Also in InDesign, I like to use a "thin space" between the last character and the Em dash in a sentence. I find it more pleasing to the eyes. (last char - thin space - Em dash - thin space - first char). Cheers for the episode, very useful.

Speaking of making me ill when proofreading/typesetting, let's talk about the double space after a period! Why do people do that! It's a relic of the typewriter era at best, people need to get with the times.
DesignDroide Says:
12/1/2006 5:42:07 AM
How can I choose the correct adjective connector with a ";"? and about the "em" dash, and the "en". I thought those had to do with the space between letters in a word (that would be a "en"). and the "em" is the space between each word in a sentence. I learned that was from the Srcable dictionary, perhaps the boggle dictionary.
Tom Hawley Says:
12/1/2006 5:02:09 AM
"Be warned that you may have to fight your computer on this one."
=====
MS Word inserts an en dash if you include a space on either side of those two typed hyphens. If you omit the spaces (typing "textdashdashtext") you'll get an em dash instead.

The hyphen conversion deal works if you have checked "Replace hyphens with dash" in Tools > AutoCorrect Options on both the AutoFormat As You Type and AutoFormat tabs.
Grammar Girl Says:
12/1/2006 3:31:47 AM
That's great! I use the Open Office word processor, which I'm very happy with except for this en dash bug.
Beth Says:
12/1/2006 2:36:08 AM
Thank you and Steve Thornton for preparing the transcript. I thoroughly enjoy the podcast and look forward to it every week. Keep it up, Grammar Girl!
Barry Smith Says:
12/1/2006 12:10:43 AM
re. "word processors replacing two hyphens with an en-dash", Microsoft Word replaces two dashes with the correct em dash.

Below are the results hopefully the difference shows up. En dash: –
Em dash: —
Two hyphens: —

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