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Episode Transcript

Further Versus Farther
Episode 39: February 02, 2007

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Grammar Girl here.

Today's topic is further versus farther.

Obviously, I'm not Grammar Girl, but Grammar Girl has a nasty cold this week and she asked me, Legal Lad, to fill in. I'm the host of the newest QDnow podcast, so I'm not sure if I'm being welcomed or hazed...but on to the question.

Hey, Grammar Girl. This is Emeran from Long Beach, California. I'm leaving you this message to request that you teach us the proper use of further and farther and of less and fewer.

Sharon from New Haven, Connecticut, and listeners named Lisa, Gina, Alicia, Mike, Anna, Kevin, and Rick all asked similar questions.

The quick and dirty tip here is that you use farther to talk about physical distance and further to talk about metaphorical, or figurative, distance. It's easy to remember because farther has the word far in it, and far obviously relates to physical distance.

For example, you might say, “Squiggly and the aardvark walked to a town far, far away. After many miles, Squiggly grew tired. 'How much farther?' he asked in despair.”

Did you hear that? Squiggly used farther because he was asking about physical distance.

If the aardvark was frustrated with Squiggly, he might say, “Squiggly, I'm tired of your complaining; further, I'm tired of carrying your marimbas.” In this case, the aardvark used further because he isn't talking about physical distance, he's talking about a metaphorical distance: further along the list of irritations.

Sometimes the quick and dirty tip breaks down because it's hard to decide whether you're talking about physical distance or not. For example, Lisa asked about the sentence “I'm further along in my book than you are in yours.” You could think of it as a physical distance through the pages and use farther, or as a figurative distance through the story and use further.

The good news is that in these ambiguous cases it doesn't matter which word you choose. The Oxford English Dictionary, Fowler's Modern English Usage, and a number of other sources say that, in most cases, it's fine to use further and farther interchangeably when the distinction isn't clear. People have been using them interchangeably for hundreds of years!

Just remember that farther has a tie to physical distance and can't be used to mean moreover or in addition. Grammar Girl says she doesn't know why, but when she means in addition she has always used furthermore instead of further. For example, if you had asked her last night how she was doing, she might have responded by saying, “I'm tired, and furthermore, we are out of Kleenex(R).” Because furthermore and farther are more different from each other than further and farther, she never gets confused.

So there you go. The quick and dirty rule is that farther relates to physical distance and further relates to figurative distance. If you can't decide which one to use, you're safer using further because farther has some restrictions, and if you tend to get confused, try using furthermore instead of further.

An interesting side note is that in Britain people use the word farther much less than they do in the U.S. At least one source speculates that this is because with British pronunciation farther sounds too much like father.

Emeran, I hope that answers your question about further and farther. We'll save less and fewer for a future episode.

That's all. Wes from Norfolk Southern is this week's winner in the Grammar Girl book giveaway. Wes wins a download of the eBook Chris Soth's Million-Dollar Screenwriting Mini-Movie Method. Congratulations, Wes, and please check your e-mail for instructions. We'll put a link on the Grammar Girl website to the eBook page at milliondollarscreenwriting.com for everyone else who wants to put their grammar skills to use by writing a screenplay.

Thank you for listening. Again, I'm Legal Lad, the host of the newest Quick and Dirty Tips podcast, Legal Lad's Quick and Dirty Tips for a More Lawful Life, filling in for Grammar Girl. My first show gives you tips for what to do if you're pulled over by the police in the United States, and you can find it right now at quickanddirtytips.com or at iTunes in a day or two. Also this week, Mr. Manners talks about wedding gift etiquette.

Questions and comments for Grammar Girl go to feedback@quickanddirtytips.com or the voice-mail line at 206-338-GIRL (4475).

Further Reading

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/f.html
http://www.uhv.edu/ac/student/writing/grammartip061405.htm
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/course/76-451/watts.html

Comments (34) for Further Versus Farther | Subscribe to Comment

Brad Beck Says:
3/5/2008 2:57:12 PM

Sorry, but I think the distinction you're making between the two words is arbitrary, a case of making a rule for the sake of making a rule. I think that Fowler was more correct when he said: "The fact is surely that hardly anyone uses the two words for different occasions; most people prefer one or the other for all purposes, & the preference of the majority is for further; the most that should be said is perhaps that farther is not common except where distance is in question." And, as the OED notes, the original comparative of "far" was "farrer", not "farther".

Rafa Says:
11/7/2007 2:30:22 PM

I also heard tha "farther" is more used with distance in km and "further" with distance in time. Is this true?

m mac dermid Says:
10/15/2007 3:25:53 PM

Will people please use a modifier with the word "fun". Correct: This is so much fun. Incorrect: This is so fun.

John Says:
4/30/2007 10:42:06 PM

Grammar Girl, you say "it's fine to use further and farther interchangeably when the distinction isn't clear. People have been using them interchangeably for hundreds of years!"

In face they have been used interchangeably to refer to both physical and metaphorical distance for hundreds of years. "Further" is more common in all cases, especially in the UK.

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19980220

bgsmith.gail@gmail.com Says:
3/29/2007 11:46:12 PM

Saw you on Oprah and you were fabulous! I really enjoy your website! Thanks!

Dayna Says:
3/28/2007 6:41:26 AM

Hi GG. I saw you on Oprah today, so glad that you were on. I love your site. Could you explain the difference and when to use set vs. sit. Like would you say "Sit the book on the table" or "set the book on the table"? Thanks for any info.

John Says:
3/23/2007 4:43:09 PM

Once upon a time, William Shakespeare protected the language.

Is this the same Shakespeare who wrote
"There's not a man I meet but doth salute me As if I were their well-acquainted friend" - A Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3

or “All debts are cleared between you and I" - Merchant of Venice -----

Liza Says:
3/23/2007 6:56:19 AM

Wait a minute. What's wrong with using "this" and "that" by themselves? And what is the difference between "continually" and "continuously"? -----

Sandy Chase Says:
3/23/2007 3:43:05 AM

Grammar Girl

Thank you for reinforcing my credibility. I've been teaching grammar without "groans" for at least 30 years. But unlike your following, my "students"--many of whom represent the media--have resisted the importance of structured language. Continually and continuously have become synonymous, this and that by themselves are acceptable, and dangling modifiers are only in the eye of the beholder.

Those destroying the language respond with:

--English is a living language.
--You know what I mean.
--Don't be so picky.

Once upon a time, William Shakespeare protected the language; then William Safire, in his weekly column. Now it's up to you and me to defend English "in a single bound."

I would love to collaborate with you on specific grammar, punctuation, and style demons. Please answer this email if you're interested in exploring such a collaboration.

Grammar Girl Says:
3/18/2007 3:18:06 PM

I did a show about "which versus that" back in August!

Ann Franklin Says:
3/17/2007 12:36:33 PM

I'm curious to know if your distinction between that and which, as mentioned in the Readers Digest, agrees with mine (a comma before which, not before that. Thatis followed by something necessary to distinguish what precedes it, which is not).

Ann Franklin Says:
3/17/2007 12:36:33 PM

aardvark Says:
3/6/2007 5:28:29 PM

Aardvark went grocery shopping for ants, termites, coffee, and jam but was startled to see the sign, “Ten Items or Less” at the checkout counter. Shouldn’t it be “Ten Items or Fewer”?

In both the A.P. Stylebook (p.94) and The Elements of Style (p.51), the authors say to use “fewer” when referring to countable items--number--and to use “less” for quantity.

After visiting the meat department, aardvark had ten “fewer” ants in his cart than he had termites.

This week aardvark bought “less” jam and “less” coffee.

All in all, the shopping spree was successful because “fewer” people were shopping and there was “less” traffic.

skull Says:
3/6/2007 4:48:45 AM

At the start you said you would also discuss the difference between "less" and "fewer" but this was not done. I have trouble with this. How about some elucidation?

John Faherty Says:
2/20/2007 10:18:38 PM

Dear all, My name is John Faherty. I am a reporter at The Arizona Republic in Phoenix. This week, I will be interviewing the Grammar Girl for a story. I would love to "chat" with any of you regarding why you enjoy this podcast. If you are interested/willing please email me at john.faherty@arizonarepublic.com. Thanks. John

Brian Says:
2/10/2007 7:30:53 AM

Hi Grammar Girl. I really enjoy your podcasts and I hope you are feeling better. I'm an American living in New Zealand, and Kiwis' use of the word "further" is similar to that of the British. It irritates my sensibilities sometimes, but I continue to use "farther" when it's appropriate. I don't hear "furthermore" very much Down Under, though. Just thought you might like to know. Keep up the great podcasting!

Benjamin Says:
2/9/2007 5:28:54 AM

I listen to your podcasts on a 2 month delay (I started listening about 8 podcasts after you started, and never caught up) but when I accidentally listened to the most recent one, rather in order...holy crap!!! I thought you had been replaced for a brief moment. Personally, I think it was all a clever ruse so Legal Lad could pimp his new show.

Michael Says:
2/7/2007 11:55:28 PM

I hope you are feeling better.

Daniel Lu Says:
2/7/2007 3:14:28 AM

Thank you Grammar Girl / Legal Lad. I've been bugged with the "farther vs. further" question often and it was nice to learn how they're used and listening to the example sentences helped quite a bit. Get well soon!

dpeach Says:
2/5/2007 9:51:54 PM

Grammar Girl, Get well soon. It was nice to hear Legal Lad though. It was a nice introduction to the new show.

Ellen Kolba Says:
2/4/2007 10:44:35 PM

Since "further" in your example is virtually synonymous with "furthermore," a better example of "further" would be something like "They are further along in their thinking about this issue than we are." I like to distinguish between physical distance and mental distance when teaching the difference between these two words.

Grammar Girl Says:
2/4/2007 6:33:56 PM

There are a couple of ways you could write this. The simplest way doesn't use any "special" punctution:

The United States spends as much money on the Iraq war per second as the average American earns in 44 days.

If you wanted to be more dramatic you could include a figure and use a dash:

The United States spends $XX per second on the Iraq war--as much as the average American earns in 44 days.

Cagey Says:
2/4/2007 7:56:26 AM

No offense Legal Lad, but I prefer The Grammar Girl broadcasts. Hopefully you'll get well soon!

I wonder if you could clarify how to make a comparative transition with disparate information sets such as in the following sentence:

The United States federal government will spend as much money in 1 second on the Iraq War, what it takes the average American 44 days to earn through wages and income.

I apologize for shamelessly posting this question on your blog, but I don't have any grammar geek friends and don't know where to look for such a community.

Carla Girtman Says:
2/3/2007 5:06:47 AM

As a composition instructor, I am always looking for ways to make grammar fun and exciting -- at the very least easier to understand. Your podcasts are easy and quick as well. I will definitely be incorporating them into my class lessons. Thanks Grammar Girl!