Irony

Was searching for an example of irony and all I got was an example of Palinoia. Is that ironic? I'm confused.

The main way that people misuse "irony" isn't to mean "bad luck." The main culprit there was one Alanis Morissette (who, ironically, wrote a song about irony with no real examples of irony therein). Most folks who misuse "irony" do so in meaning "oddly coincidental." It's not uncommon to hear something along the lines of "I just started dating a guy named Jeff who grew up in California. I hadn't talked to my sister in years, but she called the other day and ironically she just started dating a guy named Jeff who grew up in California, too!" Or maybe something like "My friend Jen was over at my house and ironically the moment she left I got a wrong number phone call in which someone asked for Jen!" Neither of those examples contain irony, simply odd coincidences. My go-to example of irony is a true story. In my early thirties, I craved an iPod for ages, but couldn't afford one. I could afford an iPod shuffle, but refused to buy one because I wanted control over song selection. I finally saved up enough for an 80 GB iPod and was thrilled to have it, but ironically I have found that I really only enjoy using it on shuffle. THAT is ironic.

Is this Irony? I am a vegetarian and don't like how Palin kills animals etc, but I watch a lot of "Faces of Death" and gore movies because I don't really care about people i don't know so it doesn't bother me to watch that.

what happen to the letters did the letter opener get to them lol

Chevydude

Irony podcast

Mignon, I love the work you do. I really do. But just as I do not like politics in my music, I don't like leftist teachings in the class room. You don't like Sarah Palin -- I get that. You're a liberal -- what teacher isn't?

Even though I know your politics now, and even though I don't care for them, I will still keep subscribing to your podcasts. But please, no more politics.

Keep up the good work!

I really enjoyed the video and your insightful analysis of it. One of my pre-service teachers shared it with me, and I think she will try to use these kind of resources with her class.

Good answer, I am looking for the solution of the same question. Find the movies or mp3 you are looking for at download-the-movie.net the most comprehensive source for free-to-try files downloads on the Web

GG, why use "oversimplification" when "simplification" would do. :)

Why no videoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!111
):

Ha ha ha ha that IS ironic. The plane towards the end was more interesting then you no offense.

P.S. The video took forever to load so no more video, OK. EVER!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. No Video Please you must be joking!! :D LOL!!

I needed to reset my iPod today and just now discovered a video episode on the feed! Some have made negative comments about the way the video was shot, but I think it is great. It captures some of that elusive 'cinema verite' quality that is sadly missing from contemporay Hollywood movies. Please keep it up the good work.

Also welcome is your foray into territory that is beyond the realm of grammar. It reminded me of an old skit from SCTV...An elementary school teacher like Andrea Martin was teaching the weekly vocabulary list. She was teaching words like train, skyscraper, playground, bridge, and so forth. The last word on the vocabulary list was "existentialism."

Somehow, explaining 'irony' is more ambitious than teaching "'Can' vs. 'May'."

A few comments about 'irony'. The entire Palin campaign reminded me of the famous quote attributed to Mr. Tom Lehrer ("Poisioning Pigeons in the Park"). He said that irony died the day the Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. It rendered political satire obsolete. That was the day the whole world became ironic, making irony difficult to recognize.

This is why: In order to recognize the irony in the Kissinger incident, a person has to have an invariant expectation of what kinds of acts are worthy of the Prize. For example, my expectation of what is worthy of the Prize doesn't include being responsible for the deaths of thousands of people. I see the world the same way as Mr. Lehrer.

In the post-modern world, there are no fixed standards. This view was expressed in President Nixon's famous statement that "anything the President does is legal." Since Kissinger received the Nobel Peace Prize, then by definition, whatever he did must merit the Prize. From this perspective, there is no way to recognize irony.

I think it has something to do with conformity/authoritarianism, but it is more complex than that: Since the Nobel committee is a authority figure, whatever they do must be correct. Each award redefines what Peace prize-winning work is. Everyone who receives the Prize must deserve it. In that way, no award can be ironic.

This is the case with Palin. In the old-world view, we had the quaint idea that candidates nominated by major parties were qualified. With that expectation, the nomination of an idiot (and the adoring response to the idiot) is seen as ironic. The post-modern interpretation matches the Kissinger example. The Republican party is the authority figure: Therefore, whoever they nominate must be qualified. It even became sensible to talk of Palin as a a leading candidate for President in 4 years!

The Turkey slaughter video was such a clear example of irony because it seemed to be exaggerated to the degree that you usually see only in staged comedy skits. It was a parody of the standard interview clip that we see in the evening news. Normally they are staged and shot in an artifical way to make the candidate look patriotic. They stand in front of a flag, or some soldiers, or with pretentious-looking politicians, for example.

The framing of the Turkey slaughter scene copied the look of one of these shots, except the executioner and his machine substituted for the standard background. Especially good was the casting of the executioner and the way in which both he and Palin glanced at each other. It was as if he was saying to her, "hey, I'm on camera killing animals" and she didn't care at all!!

How we became inured to irony is a great question and is far beyond the realm of grammar.

That's all!

I loved the video! I'd definitely tune in for more.

The clip of Sarah Palin and the slaughterhouse IS ironic. Not because she went to a slaughterhouse to pardon the turkey, but because WE saw a clip of a man slaughtering a turkey when we'd tuned in to watch one being pardoned. It's difficult to cover all types of irony in a single five-minute podcast, but GG did an excellent job of showing one type of irony. Way to go, Grammar Girl.

I hear you, but there's no reason this SHOULD be ironic. Of COURSE there's turkeys being killed there. Why else go there to pardon a turkey in the first place?

Irony is an incredibly complex subject, and what is ironic to one person may not be ironic to another (or an action that is ironic in one situation may not be ironic in another). None of the explanations here (including mine) give you a complete understanding of irony -- they are all oversimplifications. It takes more than a five-minute podcast or a short blog comment to explain irony. For people who really want to delve into irony, I heartily recommend "The Big Book of Irony," which is actually quite small.

This video is the PERFECT example of irony: I expect Grammar Girl to give me an actual example of irony, but I get exactly the opposite. :-)

Hi Grammar Girl,

You've missed the point of irony, but many people have this confusion.

Irony is when the literal meaning is opposite of the actual meaning. For instance, I might say "I love carrots". The literal meaning is that I really do like carrots and look forward to eating them. However, the actual meaning of my words depends on context and presentation. If I don't really like carrots and I'm saying that as a joke to people who know I don't like carrots, I'm intentionally using the literal meaning to emphasize the exact opposite of the literal meaning.

But, the truth of the statement has nothing to do with irony of it. If I answer a survey about carrots and lie, telling them I like carrots, that's merely a lie. I don't mean to convey the opposite idea.

However, my dislike of carrots could be situationally ironic if I buy a farm at an auction, not knowing that it's a carrot farm. My literal intent to stay away from carrots is at odds with my action that makes me own a farmload of them.

In your example, Gov. Palin's pardoning of a turkey is both the literal and actual meaning, so there is no irony. She went to a place that slaughters turkeys and pardoned one. Gov. Palin knew exactly what was going on. Although she may not have know that slaughtered turkeys were on camera, she knew that they were slaughtering turkeys. Since her actions do not cause an opposite result, and her literal and actual meanings are the same, there is no irony.

Your video, however, is situationally ironic. You intend to un-confuse people about irony, but by using the same confusion that most people have, you've made the problem worse. Your intent is exactly opposite your effect.

The comments on this post fascinate me.

It's astonishing how politically charged we've become. Even a GG video about irony that uses current events causes an uproar! It reminds me of a documentary I watched about the Dixie Chicks, where they were told by disenchanted fans to "just shut up and sing."

Thumbs up on the video. Good first attempt. I enjoyed seeing you, and it was a little more animated than the podcasts. I'm sure some improvements can be made, but I enjoyed it overall.

I just watched this on my new iphone and thought the quality looked great on it. I watched it and enjoyed the subject mater. I also enjoyed the subject matter too. Thanks for your dedication...I really like your style of teaching.

I applaud you, Grammar Girl, for taking a chance and using an example of a recent central political figure to explain irony. I think you made the concept tangible and familiar by using the pardoning of the turkey while visuals of turkey slaughtering were on the screen. Irony is a very difficult thing to describe. Bravo! I also love that you're testing video, and I see a lot of comments about how bad the video was; more of the comments destructive than constructive. I agree that the quality was not TV quality, but it's a tough medium especially when you balance the size of a really high quality video with something usable for your Internet audience. Keep up the hard work and keep reaching for the edges!

This is my first visit to your site. I have two comments on the video.

I am a 50-year old American who has been living in Canada for the past ten years. Maybe politicians started pardoning turkeys within the last 10 years, or maybe I just haven't watched enough television in my life, but I never before heard of this strange custom. Since web sites address a world-wide audience, and since, as you say, irony depends on the knowledge and viewpoint of the observer, I would have been more impressed with the video if it had been made with a world-wide audience in mind. It would only take a couple of sentences to mention the thanksgiving custom of turkey-eating and the more recent one of turkey-pardoning (with the explanation that this means the turkey will not be killed and eaten, just as a criminal pardoned for a crime will not be punished).

If I did not already know what irony is, I don't know if this video would have made it clear to me. Irony is not just seeing something different from what you expect in a situation. Irony is when someone deliberately presents you with something that is the opposite of what is expected in order to make a point, often to point out hypocrisy or some other evil. Though I personally see irony in the very idea of turkey pardoning, I don't think its clear that Palin intended irony. I think you could have found a better example, and defined irony a bit more precisely.

You might have said,

Irony:

Hillary Clinton’s recent endorsement of Barack Obama’s experience (we all remember her earlier stinging attacks on his inexperience), and Sarah Palin’s turkey pardoning incident (pardoning a turkey while turkey execution goes on in the background).

Both of these have become a part of current folklore. There’s really no need for memory piquing explanation or video reference.

Samuel Clemens once wrote, “I’m sorry this letter is so long, but I did not have time to make it shorter”. You might say, “I’m sorry this video is so long ...

That said, I enjoyed the video. If nothing else, it was nice to tie a bright, attractive, and intelligent face to your much appreciated grammatical help.

I don't read lips. I am deaf and can't understand your video without subtitles. What happened?
English is my second language which is why I come here to learn more to better my writing skills.

I, like Misha, turn to GG to get away from the political atmosphere that surrounds me everywhere else I go. I came to these comments because I have trouble understanding what is NOT irony (and I see that others agree.) However, rather than finding a discussion of irony, I find more political rants. Sigh.

Firstly I totally love your show, it was only a year and a half until I decided to pick up a copy of a grammar book (Cliff-Quick-Review; Writing, Grammar, usage and style; 2001) Great quick reference book. Additionally what I appreciate is that someone has finally brought out a grammar show that is everyone can access. Especially people of my generation as Grammar stopped being taught in the Australian system for over 20 years. So now down to the visual. I thought it would be great if it where to be a bonus feature. Keep up the great work a lot of people need you. Cheers MATTY

Hi Grammar Girl,
Each week my coworkers and I do a "Grammar Girl Assignment" by reading one or your episodes and writing about what we learned. I was curious to see this episode because hearing the word "irony" always make me think of the movie Reality Bites. Anyway, our computers are on lock-down here at work and we can't view the video:( I really hope you aren't considering changing to video episodes because we would be without our beloved Grammar Girl Assignments.

A few people have commented on my use of the word "executioner" and said that it shows some sort of bias or overreaction. I'd like to point out that I was just continuing the analogy of turkeys as prisoners, which was started by the whole silly idea of pardoning a turkey. If a turkey can be pardoned, it implies he is guilty of something, like a prisoner on death row. If a prisoner on death row is killed, I believe the person who does the killing is called an executioner.

Seems ironic that I listen to Grammar Girl to escape the Palin bashing I hear daily only to find her doing that which I hoped to escape.
Didn't BO have a dangling participle we could have giggled about instead?

I liked the video although the quality was quite poor and out of focus.

I find it quite ironic she would pardon a turkey at all. We ate one on Thanksgiving day. I suspect a rather large number of turkeys were eaten this last weekend.

I say don't mess with a woman that can shoot a wolf from a helicopter. :)

I think you must have both !

I understand the need and usefulness of the Podcast (audio); I am one of those car-driving listeners.

However, I'm sure there's a nice audience (market) within young scholars (K-12 or even High) which would love to have video sessions if they come with diagrams and simple cartoons, just like those Squiggly and Aardvark of yours.

My wife is a private English teacher here in México and she agrees that her students would love it.

Avoid complicated, rather expensive graphics.

Congrats !

Regards.

It was great putting a face to your voice.

For this particular topic, it could not have been better explained than through the Sarah Palin video. Thank you.

I really hope the interviewer was aware of the irony when she asked Gov Palin about government programs "on the chopping block."

If it were fiction, and Palin did in fact not know what was going on behind her, you could even consider it dramatic irony. "We'll probably be criticized for doing this." And my favorite: "I'll be in charge of the turkey."

And for when you do your show on puns (don't ever do a show on puns), you should include MSNBC's ticker text "Turkey-killing fowls Palin news conference."

MSNBC's version:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/27838743#27838743

Irony is more than seeing the unexpected. It is expecting one thing and getting the opposite. Same thing? Read again. It is unexpected to see little green men from Mars on your way home from work, but it is not ironic. Ironic would be to say that little green men from Mars do not exist, then seeing them. That's ironic. Pardoning a turkey at a slaughter house is not ironic. That's where the condemned turkeys are at. Pardoning a turkey on a farm is hardly a pardon - it is a deferral. Pardoning a condemn murderer happens at the jail house, often on death row. It is not ironic. Lastly, calling the turkey farmer an executioner is way over the top. Perhaps a vegan would consider him such, but 99.44% of the world population does not. The clip of Palin is a poor example of irony. A better clip would be Hillary Clinton's endorsement of Obama's experience after her stinging attacks of his inexperience during the primaries. That's irony!

I enjoy your usual topics, however, I don't see the value of the video-cast, at least with this or your usual subject matter.

Hey where are the glasses? Just kidding. This was cool and I'd enjoy this every once in a while but I look for podcasts like yours to listen to to and from work. There is a reason your number one out there.

Thanks for the comments! Nikki, there isn't a transcript this week since it was video. Chelsea, it's one of my favorite jackets but I don't remember where I got it. The brand name is Rafaella.

Hi Grammar Girl!

Loved the video podcast. Way to go to Sarah Palin for the great example.

I was wondering, where did you get the jacket you wore in the podcast? It's cute!

I clicked on "episode transcript" but get only video. Where can I read a transcript? Am confused.

I think it was ironic that Bill Clinton could lie about nearly everything he did wrong and still have the nerve to show his face in public at all.

I liked the video. There are many ways for audio and video podcast fans to coexist. PBS's McLaughlin Group is released as both an audio and video each week, for example. Another solution is on the user end. On my video iPod I have the option of listening to the audio without viewing the video. When playing a video podcast I must choose "TV Off" or "TV On" to play the podcast. Choosing "TV On" assumes you are pushing the video out to a TV, even if you are not, and the iPod screen behaves as if you are listening to an audio Podcast.

I LOVE the way that you used the medium of video to show exactly what you meant when explaining irony. Sometimes, just hte audio wouldn't quite be enough, and your use of the visuals just drove the message home even more. When using the word in future, people will have that vivid mental image. Thank you so much!

Please! Please! Please!
We need mp3!

@Mel: I think your example is not particularly illustrative of irony. To make it more ironic, the foot injury would have been caused by you dropping that miniature Great Wall of China souvenir tchotchke on your foot as you raced from your room to get to the tour bus. I think there has to be some sort of twisted parallelism for a situation to be ironic.

Now for a comparison between "ironic", "satirical", "wry", etc.

I have never fully grasped the concept of irony. Although your video highlighted a use of irony, I still don't feel I understand when something is ironic and when it is not. Is it, for example, ironic if somebody were planning to visit the Great Wall of China, but on the very morning of the intended visit kicks a small wall in their home and breaks their toe (thus preventing them from going at all)? Is it ironic if a person spends a lifetime in fear of flying and, on finally gathering the courage to step on a plane, is the victim of a plane crash? Is it ironic if someone dedicates their life to the study and protection of, say, gorillas, and is ultimately killed by one? I have plenty of scenarios like these, but I guess I'd better not write them all!

Yay! More video, please! What a delightful surprise to check your podcast feed on my new G1 phone via my podcatcher and see it there. I had downloaded a video player for the phone too, but haven't yet had the opportunity to watch anything because it requires content to be in MP4 format below a certain resolution. But lo and behold! There you were, fitting perfectly into my little screen!

This was an excellent topic, too, for the format. Well, generally, it was just a great topic. What an awesome example you chose and I really love how you presented it. Hopefully, most of the comments will be grammar-related and not politically-oriented!

As far as the video, I love you Grammar girl but it just seemed to go on and on. I got the feeling that anyone who was previously unclear about irony (I didn't realize that it was a national epidemic) would certainly be sufficiently confused after that long drawn out (but well-intended) explanation.

As far as the political rant expressed below by AnUnSi, you're whining over an election you officially lost three weeks ago. GET OVER IT! See, this is why you and your ilk did not prevail. You constantly harp on the negative and worry about stupid non-issues like calling her governor or wearing a stupid flag pin. Who cares!! Fix my economy and stop starting wars! Talk about irony, based on your blind love for the vapid sarah palin (notice I didn't say gov. or bother to capitalize), it's quite obvious that YOU’RE the one that jumped at the opportunity to pull a political hit job masquerading in a Grammar forum.

In case you didn’t get the memo November 4th, the days of electing presidents based on military creditentials or claiming to possess an idealic unrealistic set of values that they don't even live up to (but insist the rest of us adhere to) all while clinging to their guns and religion are over! President Barack HUSSEIN Obama (love that middle name), will set a standard so high for future presidents that the mentally retarded like sarah palin (Damn! Forgot to call her govern-ator again) have no chance of even being considered ever again for such an office. But make no mistake -- we’re hardly afraid of her. Me and every other bleeding heart, tree-hugging liberal PRAYS that you republicans are stupid enough to roll her out as your nominee in 2012. In fact we’re counting on it. Because as evidenced on the campaign trail, in the interview with Katie Couric, on the phone with the pranksters, and yet again in her turkey pardon video, sarah palin is the gift that truly keeps on giving. You bet-cha!

I know what irony is and when it occurs in a story, but I've always struggled to explain it, even to myself. This presentation was one of the more straightforward and understandable explanations I've come across. Thanks!

I loved the video. I would not want every weeks to be a video, but an occasion video or a video feed would be nice. And as others have said, you look as beautiful and your voice sounds :) Keep up the great work!

Great video!

I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed watching the video. It was great considering it's your first (AFAIK) video episode. As usual, you explained the topic in an easy-to-understand and entertaining manner. Keep up the great work!

@AnUnSi:
Isn't it ironic that Mignon actually anticipated your rather silly comment?

This video program was sickening! It was a political "hit job" masquerading as a lecture on irony -- a topic that, in and of itself, has nothing to do with grammar! The first disgusting thing about this program was the liberal hostess's disrespectful failure to refer to Sarah Palin as GOVERNOR Palin. The second obnoxious thing was the hostess's reference to what had occurred behind Gov. Palin as an "execution." This was done to perpetuate the myth that Governor Sarah Palin is a bloodthirsty "murderer" of poor, helpless, lovable animals. People with BRAINS (folks who will not be swayed by "mignonesque" propaganda) realize that animals are slaughtered by the millions every day -- not "executed," for heaven's sake -- and that is why many of them exist: to provide mankind with food! Only a human being can be "executed!" I could go on with other objectionable things in the video clip, but I think that the point has been made. The liberal crowd TERRIBLY FEARS Gov. Palin as a formidable foe in 2012, and they have decided to CONTINUE the poisonous lies about her that they had already begun to spread, just one day after she was named as a candidate for the Vice Presidency. Thanks to the ultra-liberal liars in the media, many in the public already WRONGLY believe that (1) Gov. Palin's baby was actually borne by her daughter, that (2) she wants to force Creationism into school curricula, that (3) she tried to ban certain widely accepted books from libraries, that (4) she was a member of the Alaska Independence Party and supported secession, that (5) she cut funding for special-needs education, that (6) she endorsed Pat Buchanan for president, that (7) she said that she could see Russia from her house, that (8) she broke the law in firing an official in Alaska, and on and on and on. The left-wing leaders are intoxicated with their new-found, undeserved political power (and their 35-year-old license to execute [!] unborn babies). They fear having to surrender executive power in 2012 to the brilliant, pro-life Governor of Alaska, who was far more qualified in 2008 to be President of the U.S. than was B. Hussein Obama.

Ms GG can u make an audio about
The usage of the phrase "First and Foremost" isn't it redundant to write first followed by foremost?

sarah palin is an idiot. but this is the first time i've seen grammar girl on video and she looks pretty.

I have things i liked and things that I didn't. First, the background was a bit distracting and the video clip was not large enough to display what you were hoping for. I have been listening for a few months and while you definitely have a great voice, i did not realize you had a face for tv until now. Loved the video.

I found the background distracting especially when bright shining object in the sky appeared to fly into your ear and it looked as though you attempted to swat it away. And then when the second shinning object moves across the screen and you were pointing at it with your right hand I thought I might have stumbled upon Quick and Dirty Tips for UFO Spotting by accident.
I thoroughly agree with bryanf comments. I enjoy your show in whatever format you choose – Keep up the good work!

It was a pleasant surprise when this video showed up in iTunes. I like the idea of an occasional video in the podcast feed, or a separate video series, for more complex topics that lend themselves to a visual explanation. Two thumbs up for video!

I do have some constructive criticism. The audio quality of your normal podcasts is awesome, but the audio in this video was disappointing. I'm used to hearing what you're saying clearly. In the video the audio was cloudy and occasionally distorted, which distracted from the content.

Good point, David. I'm still getting used to putting together a video. Here is a link to both the videos: http://community.adn.com/adn/node/134739

Why was this episode in video format?
Is it supposed to be ironic that after saying that you used video because you wanted to show us the Sarah Palin video, that we didn't see any more than a few grabs from the video? And no pointers to where we could go to find the video to see the other bits you talked about...
Seemed ironic to me!

The video was definitely good, I would like to see more in the future. Grammar on!

Fantastic example, well explained. Video worked well here for the format.

Please don't switch to video. I have an ipod mini that does not support videos. Also, no offense, the quality of the video wasn't that great.

You are awesome Grammar Girl, I love your audio podcast.