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Ending a Sentence With a Preposition
Episode 69: August 03, 2007

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Grammar Girl here.

Today's topic is prepositions. Here's a typical listener question:

I wanted to know if you could do a podcast on not ending a sentence with prepositions.

Just as Harry Potter was unfairly labeled “undesirable number one” in the latest J.K. Rowling book, ending a sentence with a preposition is often unfairly labeled “undesirable grammar construction number one” by people who were taught that prepositions have a proper place in the world, and it's not at the end of a sentence.

I'm going to start calling this “grammar myth number one” because nearly all grammarians agree that it's fine to end sentences with prepositions, at least in some cases (1, 2, 3, 4).

So before I lose you, let's back up. What is a preposition?

A preposition is a word that creates a relationship between other words. It's been said that prepositions often deal with space and time (1), which always makes me think of Star Trek. For example, the prepositions above, by, and over all say something about a position in space; the prepositions before, after, and since all say something about time.

Here's an example of a sentence that can end with a preposition: What did you step on?

A key point, you might say the Quick and Dirty Tip, is that the sentence doesn't work if you leave off the preposition. You can't say, “What did you step?” You need to say, “What did you step on?” to make a grammatical sentence.

I can hear some of you gnashing your teeth right now, while you think, “What about saying, 'On what did you step?'”

But really, have you ever heard anyone talk that way? I've read long, contorted arguments from noted grammarians about why it's OK to end sentences with prepositions when the preposition isn't extraneous (1), but the driving point still seems to be, “Nobody in their right mind talks this way.” Yes, you could say, “On what did you step?” but not even grammarians think you should.

But, you can't always end sentences with prepositions. When you could leave off the preposition and it wouldn't change the meaning, you should leave it off. Really, I can't believe anyone would make such a silly mistake!

Hi Grammar girl, this is Brian and Alley from Iowa City, IA, and we were just wondering, in your last episode, you said, “That's where it's at.” Is that correct? We thought you couldn't end sentences with prepositions.

Ahem. That voice-mail message is at least four months old. I'm going to pretend I'm testifying before congress and say that I have no recollection of saying such a thing.

But if I did say, “That's where it's at.” I'm so sorry—the horror—because that is one of the instances where it's not OK to end a sentence with a preposition! I need to do some kind of grammar penance such as memorizing all the academic grammar words that start with i: imperative clause, indefinite article, idiot . . . .

The problem is that the sentence That's where it's at doesn't need the preposition. If you open the contraction “it-apostrophe-s” and say “That's where it is,” it means the same thing as That's where it’s at. So the at is unnecessary.

The problem with unnecessary prepositions doesn't just happen at the end of sentences. People often throw extraneous prepositions into the middle of sentences, and they really shouldn't (2). Instead of saying Squiggly jumped off of the dock, it's better to say Squiggly jumped off the dock. You see? You don't need to say off of the dock; off the dock says the same thing without the preposition. A listener wrote in saying he often hears people say outside of when outside by itself would do just fine, and he's right. You should say, “He's outside the door,” not, “He's outside of the door.”

To get back to the main point, the bottom line is that many people think it's wrong, so I wouldn't advise ending sentences with prepositions in critical situations, for example, you shouldn't do it in a cover letter for a job you really want. I always say, “It's better to be employed than right.” But once you're hired, end away, and do your part to dispel grammar myth number one.

That's all.

Thank you to everyone who nominated Grammar Girl for People's Choice and Best Education Podcast in the Podcast Awards! I'm honored and especially surprised to be in two categories. It's the finals now, so it you want me to win, please visit PodcastAwards.com and vote. You can vote once a day through August 11. It's also a great site to discover new podcasts, since all the nominees are listed in one place. PodcastAwards.com.

Money Girl is nominated for Best Business Podcast, and I'm sure she would appreciate your vote too. This week her podcast is about an underreported change in credit card rules that will affect thousands of people's credit scores.

If you visit QuickAndDirtyTips.com you can find all my contact information and read the entire transcript of this podcast.

Thanks for listening.

References

Huddleston, R. and Pullman, G.K. A Student's Introduction to English Grammar. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2006, p. 20, 137-8.
Strumpf, M. and Douglas, A. The Grammar Bible. New York: Henry Holt and Company, 2004, p. 231, 217.
Thurman, S. The Only Grammar Book You'll Ever Need. Avon: Adams Media, 2003, p.32.
Stilman, A. Grammatically Correct. Cincinnati: Writer's Digest Books, 2004, p.264.

Comments (61) for Ending a Sentence With a Preposition | Subscribe to Comment

Tim in Houston Says:
11/9/2008 12:07:15 PM

Thank you GG for this article! To all who "freak out" regarding the sentence, "Where are you at?" It's a FANTASTIC idea to drop that "at" because it is redundant(!) and sounds a bit silly, "Where are you?" is a great sentence. So... One CAN drop that ending preposition. Some folks seem to understand the English rule as a *requirement* to end w/ a preposition! To quote one former English teacher, "Write Tight," (I think there's a book with that title). Another great reference should drive the final stake into the heart of this matter: ------------ It was once a cherished superstition that prepositions must be kept true to their name and placed before the word they govern in spite of the incurable English instinct for putting them late. . . . The fact is that. . . . even now immense pains are sometimes expended in changing spontaneous into artificial English. . . . Those who lay down the universal principle that final prepositions are 'inelegant' are unconsciously trying to deprive the English language of a valuable idiomatic resource, which has been used freely by all our greatest writers except those whose instinct for English idiom has been overpowered by notions of correctness derived from Latin standards. The legitimacy of the prepositional ending in literary English must be uncompromisingly maintained. . . . In avoiding the forbidden order, unskillful handlers of words often fall into real blunders. . . . A Dictionary of Modern English Usage, 2nd ed. [Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1965].) ------------ Kudos to those on the message board who remember English is also Germanic in origin! --tim P.S. Apologies in advance for any grammar errors I made in the parts where I was not quoting. I'd hate to log in tomorrow and see, "'freak out' is really a verb form of dubious origin..." etc.

begae Says:
11/6/2008 4:28:47 AM

Huh, it's really hard for us to make this sense to non-sense arguments. It's obviously awkward when you say "that's where it's at." Anyway, if this things goes more complicated, why not to ask somebody who are expert of it?...So that everything is in order.

MC Says:
11/4/2008 10:18:55 AM

I was taught that you do not end a sentence with a preposition. It can be at the beginning in the middle but not end with one. My english primer never taught me to write or speak your example sentence: "What did you step on?". I was taught, "On what did you step?" I admit that this does sound strange today because Americans have slowly strayed from traditional english pronounciation and sentence structure over the last two hundred years. Your example sentence and sentences like it are the result. The grammar in the Declaration of Independence is a good example of this. I do agree with the rest of your answer but we should always remember that language is a slowly evolving entity that does change over long periods of time and when this happens, popular grammar typically overrules tradition. "What did we step on" is a sign of this.

ava Says:
10/20/2008 4:37:15 PM

it is good

winnieva james Says:
10/20/2008 4:35:45 PM

grammar girl is good

Bobmo Says:
10/20/2008 3:45:21 PM

I know this thread is over a year old, but when I read ligneus' comment, "What did you bring that book I didn't want to be read to out of up for?" I laughed out loud. Until then, I thought the best such sentence was, "What would anyone want to use a preposition to end a sentence up with for."

linda Says:
10/12/2008 11:15:54 PM

What is a bridge/transition and bridge-sentence?

GrammarMan Says:
10/4/2008 7:58:19 AM

After 11 years of teaching, I realized that a preposition is simply an adverb with an object. Excellent work, Grammar Girl. Your explanations are verbose but clear and understandable.

sewim Says:
8/23/2008 5:58:56 PM

how can i use 'though' at the end of a sentence???

Rob Zani Says:
8/1/2008 7:27:58 PM

A famous writer (can't remember who), when told not to end with a preposition, reworded a sentence to read: Up with him I will not put.

jayson Says:
7/8/2008 8:21:28 PM

is there a rule when to say the long a and the short a?

Mike Says:
6/6/2008 7:01:56 PM

I was running for class president this year, and one of my three opponents put up an advertisement saying "WHO WILL YOU VOTE FOR" with an image of Uncle Sam. I truly had to restrain myself to avoid rewriting it as "FOR WHOM WILL YOU VOTE" or at least "WHOM WILL YOU VOTE FOR". He won. If only sticklers were not a minority :/.

bluebird Says:
5/12/2008 10:57:59 PM

Re: Pam Says: 3/9/2008 8:16:28 PM How would you change this to make it correct? "The notes were read and agreed with." Thanks! How about this wording? "All agreed to the notes that were read."

Ted Graham Says:
5/6/2008 12:27:32 PM

Grammar Girl: I'm a big fan, being one of those people who tends to wince at misplaced apostrophes, etc. Your column on prepositions reminds me of the (perhaps apocryphal) anecdote attributed to Winston churchill: see below. Ted Graham Churchill on Prepositions The saying attributed to Winston Churchill rejecting the rule against ending a sentence with a preposition must be among the most frequently mutated witticisms ever. I have received many notes from correspondents claiming to know what the “original saying” was, but none of them cites an authoritative source. The alt.english.usage FAQ states that the story originated with an anecdote in Sir Ernest Gowers’ Plain Words (1948). Supposedly an editor had clumsily rearranged one of Churchill’s sentences to avoid ending it in a preposition, and the Prime Minister, very proud of his style, scribbled this note in reply: “This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.” The American Heritage Book of English Usage agrees. The FAQ goes on to say that the Oxford Companion to the English Language (no edition cited) states that the original was “This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.” To me this sounds more likely, and eagerness to avoid the offensive word “bloody” would help to explain the proliferation of variations. A quick search of the Internet turned up an astonishing number. In this era of copy-and-paste it’s truly unusual to find such rich variety. The narrative context varies too: sometimes the person rebuked by Churchill is a correspondent, a speech editor, a bureaucrat, or an audience member at a speech and sometimes it is a man, sometimes a woman, and sometimes even a young student. Sometimes Churchill writes a note, sometimes he scribbles the note on the corrected manuscript, and often he is said to have spoken the rebuke aloud. The text concerned was variously a book manuscript, a speech, an article, or a government document. Here is just a sample of the variations circulating on the Net: That is a rule up with which I will not put. This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put. This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put. Not ending a sentence with a preposition is a bit of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put. That is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put This is insubordination, up with which I will not put! This is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put. This is the sort of thing up with which I will not put. Madame, that is a rule up with which I shall not put. One poor soul, unfamiliar with the word “arrant,” came up with: “That is the sort of errant criticism up with which I will not put.” Then there are those who get it so scrambled it comes out backward: Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put. Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which we will not put. From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put. Please understand that ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I shall not put. I checked the indexes of a dozen Churchill biographies, but none of them had an entry for “prepositions.” Ben Zimmer has presented evidence on the alt.usage.english list that this story was not originally attributed to Churchill at all, but to an anonymous official in an article in The Strand magazine. Since Churchill often contributed to The Strand, Zimmer argues, it would certainly have identified him if he had been the official in question. It is not clear how the anecdote came to be attributed to Churchill by Gowers, but it seems to have circulated independently earlier.

Robert Allen Says:
5/3/2008 12:24:17 PM

Re: "ending a sentence with preposition." The princple enunciated in your exposition on this subject is accurate, while the analysis is not. English often generates new verbs with new meanings by adding endings, e.g., "put," "put off," "put out," "put up" "put up with." To treat these endings as prepositions merely due to resemblance displays an appalling ignrance of the language. To use a further example, "Stand," "stand up," "stand up to" "stand out," and "stand up for," "stand in for," are separate verbs with separate meanings. Hence, in "he stood up for the cause," "cause" is merely the direct object of the verb "to stand up for" and not the object of a preposition. Thus, "His cause is something to stand up for." is perfectly acceptable English. cf. "He shut the barking dog up." Thus, in your example, as the verb is "to step on," the sentence does not end with a preposition, but rather with a verb. Interestingly, English also creates new verbs by adding the pronoun "it," e.g., "step on" v. "step on it," "hit v. "hit it."

Kari Says:
5/2/2008 7:42:51 PM

I may be wrong, but I believe that the reference to "where it's at" is less in reference to the idiomatic expression and more inline with "where you at?" i.e., referencing location. I confess that hearing "Where you at?" is enough to cause a physical reaction in me. I have been known to shudder at the sound. That said, I do occasionally end sentences with prepositions (typically when it is more awkward than the adjusted sentence would be). Using the "Q&D" rule of eliminating an ending preposition when the word is superfluous and leaving it alone when the word is needed for clarity will be incredibly helpful in my personal and professional life. Grammar Girl, you rock.

Joanna Says:
4/16/2008 11:12:27 AM

I just discovered this site, and I love it! I wanted to point out that the examples people have provided of ending sentences with prepositions are in many cases phrasal verbs. I learned about these as an ESL teacher, and learned that phrasal verbs are verbs consisting of a verb + preposition or adverb that modifies the original meaning of the verb. So in the example "to step on," we can see that "to step" has a different meaning for us than "to step on." In this case, "on" functions as part of the verb more than as a preposition and is completely ok at the end of sentences. This also explains the concerns of people who were posting the phrasal verb "to put up with." Hope this helps!

Bil Says:
3/26/2008 5:20:14 PM

Pam, you bring up another point that is best to be avoided and that is passive voice. I say give the noun its due and write "(Noun here) read and agreed with the notes".

Brenda DeLaTorre Says:
3/12/2008 6:00:53 AM

I was taught that a preposition must have an object. Therefore, it would seem that if a "preposition" comes at the end of a sentence, it would have no object and would not be a preposition there.

tincanman Says:
3/10/2008 12:52:23 AM

I think it is okay to end a sentence with a proposition, depending to whom you are speaking and the context thereof

Pam Says:
3/9/2008 8:34:19 PM

How would you change this to make it correct? "The notes were read and agreed with." Thanks!

Pam Says:
3/9/2008 8:16:28 PM

How would you change this to make it correct? "The notes were read and agreed with." Thanks!

jennylyn miranda Says:
3/8/2008 2:38:08 PM

bakit walang lumalabas na sentence ng prepositions?

Ed Schneeflock Says:
3/4/2008 9:54:13 PM

In German there are a class of verbs that have what are called separable prefixes. When these verbs are congregated, the prefix goes to the end of the sentence. Will it surprise anyone to hear that these prefixes are all prepositions? For example the infinitive form aufstehen (to stand up, or more literatly, upstand) becomes "I stehe auf." (I stand up). I think I see a pattern here.

Dan S Says:
3/1/2008 9:44:28 AM

Even when these "rules" have no veracity whatsoever, people still try to make them out to be some sort of rule. They go through great contortions to try to show that they had some merit. This one doesn't, it never did.

David Says:
2/28/2008 10:37:51 AM

So are there any prepositions it is OK to end sentences with?

anon1234 Says:
2/23/2008 10:12:07 AM

"This silly idea comes from early 20th century grammarians ..." It started long before that, in the 1650s with John Dryden and John Wallis. http://ling.kgw.tu-berlin.de/lexicography/data/B_HIST_EU.html

janice Says:
2/22/2008 3:08:14 PM

I haven't seen any mention of the "Sh*thead" rule. If you ever find yourself about to end a sentence with a preposition, you can easily fix it by adding the word "sh*thead" at the end. (A lot like the Harvard joke.)

Jack Drolet Says:
1/22/2008 11:28:01 AM

Thanks Grammar Girl for setting the record straight on sentences that end with a preposition. This silly idea comes from early 20th century grammarians who for some reason thought that it made sense to apply rules from Latin to English. The problem is that even though English has a lot of Latin based vocabulary, it's a Germanic language. So here's to split infinitives and sentences that end with words that describe where a mouse can go (in, on, over, under, around, and such and such).

Scott Says:
1/16/2008 2:01:29 PM

I disagree that "That's where it's at" is equivalent to "That's where it is." "That's where it's at" is an idiom with subtext that gets lost if you recast. If you say, "I go to the coffee shop because that's where it is," you not only sound like the squarest square; you also invite the confused response, "That's where WHAT is?" You should've told those smirking snarks where to get off.

facadefemme Says:
11/2/2007 6:15:05 PM

As a strictly descriptive linguist and ESL teacher, I am often driven crazy by the comments of prescriptivists and grammarians. I want people to say whatever they want, in the best way for them, regardless of grammar rules. Thank you for this open minded explanation. I rarely read these types of things and agree with the information. This was one of the best I have seen. Thank you!

Amy Says:
11/2/2007 5:11:58 PM

We have a joke here in Boston about this: Harvard freshman: Where's the Library at? Harvard senior: Here at Hahvahd we don't end our sentences with a preposition. Harvard freshman: OK, then, where's the library at, asshole?

richard Says:
11/2/2007 3:23:04 PM

i like double negatives i noticed that there are no comments with no responces!! there one ha ! ha! see ya

John Says:
11/2/2007 3:00:50 PM

That is the sort of English up with which I shall not put!

Paul Says:
11/1/2007 6:58:12 PM

Great show -- I just started listening. To prove I was paying attention, I spotted your illicit use of "so" (which you critique in another episode) in this episode, as in "I'm so sorry—the horror—because that is one of the instances where it's not OK to end a sentence with a preposition!" :)

Lauren Hightower Says:
10/16/2007 9:34:13 AM

Great episode!

Mark Says:
9/25/2007 2:50:39 PM

The important point here is that grammarians are pretty much irrelevant to everyday life - they're pretty much like archaeologists, they like to think they're doing something important but really they're only commenting on things which have already passed their sell by date.

William Says:
9/21/2007 8:36:14 PM

`Grammatical' is improper English. The correct adjective form of `grammar' is `grammatic'. `Grammatically' is the correct adjective form.

ligneus Says:
9/20/2007 8:22:29 AM

"What did you bring that book I didn't want to be read to out of up for?"

Doug Rosbury Says:
9/18/2007 9:50:19 PM

grammatical rules Are only a guide. In my opinion, people should not be held responsible for carrying the torch of grammatical correctness. There is a certain charm in colloquialisms which Give the language color and humor. Don't put me in a prison of correctness. Doug Rosbury

B_allW@yz_unKn0wn Says:
9/18/2007 2:51:04 PM

i understand what everyone else is saying but i didnt even read it but if i did i would leave you saying its always important to read what you talk about... LOL

David K Says:
8/17/2007 9:03:23 PM

I would have used a different example sentence. Sentence diagramming shows us that word order gets modified when posing a question. Also, "step on" could be interpreted as a phrasal verb, i.e. to inadvertently change or break. ----- --------

Jan Says:
8/16/2007 7:12:13 AM

AM LOL! love it. -----

Terry Says:
8/10/2007 2:53:00 PM

Hey Grammar Girl, When you used the example, Where it's at, I could not help but think of the Beck song, Where It's At off the Odelay Album. "Where it's at I got two turntables and a microphone Where it's at I got two turntables and a microphone" Of course, the artist Beck is known for his eccentric grammar and creative word play. My point is that I often add the extra prepositions in my sentences and the example is a great mnemonic for me to cut them out. Thanks! Terry -----

Grammar Girl Says:
8/10/2007 5:41:00 AM

I love it! Thanks. -----

LingMystic Says:
8/9/2007 3:35:20 PM

Your post reminded me of one of my favorite jokes to tell to prescriptivist English majors: So, a new Freshman is wandering, lost, around the campus, looking for a library. He goes into a building, and, figuring there would be somebody inside, wanders into the English department. He wanders through the hallways until he finds a sole door open. Peering inside at an old professor behind a desk, he pipes up: "Uh, I'm a bit lost. Could you tell me where the library's at?" The professor stands up from his desk, a look of disgust on his face. "Son," he begins, "Your grammar is deplorable. I won't even dignify that question with a response until it no longer ends with a preposition." The freshman thinks for a second, then asks again: "Could you tell me where the library's at, jerk?" -----

SoCentDem Says:
8/9/2007 2:56:53 PM

Gabriel, I agree, and will go one better. The "at" in the sentence acts as an intensifier, at least in some situations, and therefore carries meaning beyond mere idiomatic expression. While GG's opening up of "it's to analyze the problem is accurate, let's stop and think: Do native English speakers say "That's where it is at" or That's where it's at"? The contracted form draws the intensifying "at". Not only is "at" perfectly acceptable here, the speaker's intention may actually REQUIRE the "at", which in this case would more properly be considered a particle, rather than a preposition. Just one grammarian's opinion. -----

adamflores Says:
8/9/2007 1:31:16 PM

thanks, I was very confused on this matter. For some reason I was under the assumption that when you refer to the thing that is half of a unit it is referred to as a halve, but you have helped me to clear this up thanks. -----

Bobby Says:
8/9/2007 12:35:07 PM

if your ever in this situation: Friend: Where do you want to meet at? You: Behind the "A" and "T" on preposition street. BOO YAH! -----

Gabriel Says:
8/9/2007 5:54:45 AM

The plural of 'half' is 'halves.' The word 'halve' is a verb, meaning to cut in half. The correct word in your case would be the noun 'half.' A bit confusing, isn't it? -----

adamflores Says:
8/8/2007 4:58:53 PM

Please help me. I need to know when to use half vs. halve. At work I created a blueprint of some tooling. The tooling is a large piece of steel cut down the center to make a top and bottom die. In my notes on the blueprint I mentioned the bottom halve. It was marked up by my superiors as incorrect, but they weren't able to tell me why. please help. -----

alicia Says:
8/8/2007 10:27:07 AM

Haha, that's great :) -----

James Says:
8/8/2007 3:20:40 AM

I love that you made this post. I frequently quote “That is something up with which I will not put” to convince people that a sentence can end with a preposition just to show the awkwardness of such a construction. -----

Ken Says:
8/7/2007 7:15:38 PM

I was going to post something about the "arrant pedantry up with which I shall not put" so often attributed to Churchill, but I see that it is in the process of debunkenment*. *Sorry. :-) -----

Grammar Girl Says:
8/6/2007 9:32:50 PM

Good catch! Thanks. -----

Marie Says:
8/6/2007 5:43:15 PM

An English teacher once told me, "A preposition is like ants at a picnic. Anything an ant can be in relation to the food is a preposition. For example: in the food, around the food, below the food, etc. -----

Tim Says:
8/6/2007 11:31:43 AM

Nice piece. I was always scolded for ending with prepositions. I was wondering though if there is a word missing near the end of the transcript where it reads, "To get back to the main point, the bottom is that many people think ...." Is the word "line" missing after "bottom" in this sentence? -----

alicia Says:
8/4/2007 6:40:35 PM

Great article :) I'm hell bent on not ending sentences with prepositions - not prepositional phrases, but actual prepositions. However, I'm very guilty of throwing in the unnecessary "of" every now and then! -----

TS Says:
8/4/2007 3:23:48 PM

Thank you for finally covering this! I'm known as a bit of a stickler for correct grammar amongst my friends, and some of them delight when they catch me using a preposition at the end of a sentence. Getting out the OED or any number of college grammar texts to explain to them the history of the language and why it isn't wrong is usually more trouble than it's worth.

AnnaLisa Michalski Says:
8/3/2007 1:48:59 PM

THANK YOU for addressing this! This is something people question why I don't correct when I proofread. After spending years dutifully twisting their sentences to rearrange prepositions, it is hard for people to believe that yes, preps are fine at the ends of most sentences. While grammarians have long agreed there's no reason to follow such an arbitrary rule, the fact is, most ordinary folks don't read grammarians much. I suspect seeing the myth debunked on a popular site/podcast will go a long way toward getting the word out. Regarding extraneous prepositions, I'd add up to the list of frequent offenders. (I hear this so often that I wrote an article about it.) A few common examples are switch up, meet up, team up, eat up, finish up--all of which could be said just as well without the up. -----

Gabriel Says:
8/3/2007 3:31:09 AM

Hi, Grammar Girl. I think you were a bit tough on yourself this episode when you assigned yourself a penance for saying "that's where it's at." This is an idiomatic expression in English, dating from the 60's I suppose. Such phrases, if they've been around long enough, are grandfathered in. (There - I ended a sentence with a preposition because of an idiomatic expression.) While you may guilty of bad taste by using a corny expression like 'groovy,' substituting "that's where it is" for "that's where it's at" would change the sense of the sentence. I recommend you reduce your penance to watching one episode of a 60's-era TV show, or possibly listening to some 60's music. Right on! -----