Episode Transcript

What Is the Plural of “Mouse”?
Episode 135: September 16, 2008

Today’s topic is irregular plural nouns, odd nouns such as “ox” and “oxen.”

But first...this podcast is sponsored by Audible, the Internet's leading provider of spoken-word entertainment. Audible now has over 40,000 titles for you to choose from. Visit audiblepodcast.com/gg for a free trial that includes a free audiobook download today.

Robbie from Keene, New Hampshire, called in with this question:

"One of my friends knows that I'm kind of geeky and into grammar and was asking me about adding the 's' onto words to make [them] plural but in the same question came up with the question about words like 'moose' and 'mice' and 'ox' and a goose--how all of those aren't formed into the plural by adding the 's.' And I was wondering if you can give any insight? Is there any rhyme or reason into this? Is it only animals that we don't to have to add an 's' on to make it plural?"

Guest-writer Bonnie Trenga answers:

Robbie made me laugh when he placed a follow-up call asking me to imagine pluralizing all these words like the word "oxen": "goosen," "micen," and "moosen." Very funny. Perhaps we would say some plurals that way if we were all still speaking Old English. More on that in a minute.

In modern English, most of the time we make a noun plural by adding an “-s.” So the plural of “animal” is “animals.” Robbie, on the other hand, is asking about irregular plurals, and we’re going to delve a bit into the history of English as we learn about three irregular types of plural noun. Many irregular plurals in English do seem to be animal names, but odd plurals aren't limited to animals.

Plurals Derived from an Old English Form

The first group of irregular nouns we’ll discuss derive from an obsolete form in Old English. “Ox” and “oxen” fall into this category. Old English is a West Germanic language that was spoken and written in parts of what are now England and southern Scotland between the mid-5th and mid-12th centuries (1). “Beowulf” was written in this language.

If someone from a thousand years ago traveled through time to visit us, we certainly wouldn’t understand each other, but as modern English evolved, it retained some elements of Old English. So we can blame Old English for the plural noun “oxen.” Only two other plural nouns in modern English end this way: “children” and “brethren.” Some other nouns, such as “eye,” “house,” and “hose,” used to be pluralized in a similar way, but the plural forms “eyen,” “housen,” and “hosen” are now dialectic or obsolete (2).

Seeing this word “hosen” reminded me of the German word “lederhosen,” which has a similar plural ending as these obsolete words. I’ve always known that English has many roots, including Germanic ones, but I haven’t actually studied German. The site I perused to learn about German plural nouns tells me there are a dozen different ways that German nouns can form the plural, one of which is “-en” (3).

Mutated Plurals

The second group of plurals we’ll talk about are mutants, which also have Old English roots (4). Examples are “foot,” “goose,” “woman,” and “louse,” which become “feet,” “geese,” “women,” and “lice.” Again we turn to German for an explanation of why they're pluralized this way.

You form these mutated plurals simply by changing the vowel sound of the singular, in a process called “umlaut” (5). An umlaut is that little two-dot symbol you sometimes see on German vowels, but what we’re talking about here is a different meaning of the word. The process of umlaut is a technical linguistics concept (6). All we need to know for our purposes is that mutated plurals are in fact quite rare in modern English. Other examples are “man” and “men,” “mouse” and mice,” and “tooth” and “teeth.”

Note that the American Heritage Dictionary says when you're talking about a computer mouse, the plural can be either “mice” or “mouses.”

Plurals That Are the Same As the Singulars

Our etymology lesson is over but we have one more type of plural noun to cover. These are nouns whose singular and plural forms are the same, such as “deer,” “fish,” “moose,” “sheep,” and “swine.” They are a kind of collective noun, which I covered in an earlier show. As you can tell, these nouns seem to be all animal names, so Robbie was partly right. These nouns don’t have the normal plural ending because we think of them as a group, as in “Six fish are in the aquarium.” However, you can pluralize “fish” in the normal way if you want to describe multiple individuals, for example, The American Heritage Guide to Contemporary Usage and Style uses the example “Half a dozen fishes inhabit the lake” (7). However, you wouldn’t say, “fishes” very often unless you’re talking in scientific terms.

I didn’t know that irregular plural nouns could be so interesting. If you want to learn more about Old English or the umlaut process, see quickanddirtytips.com for links to more information.

No Firm Rules

Although I had started out hoping to find a pattern that would help Robbie understand why certain words take strange plurals, the real answer is that the occasional odd plurals are just random holdovers from Old English or are examples of collective nouns. The bottom line is that they are just the way they are, and people who are learning English simply have to memorize the strange plurals just as they would irregular verbs. Sorry!

Administrative

This episode touched ever so lightly on the idea that English changes over time. If you're curious about the forces that lead language to change, I recommend Charles Hodgson's short audiobook titled Global Wording. The best part is that Global Wording is one of the free audiobooks you can select when you sign up for a free trial at Audible using the special promotion at audiblepodcast.com/gg. So visit audiblepodcast.com/gg for your free trial and your free audiobook.

This podcast was written by Bonnie Trenga, author of The Curious Case of the Misplaced Modifier, who blogs at sentencesleuth.blogspot.com.

This week I have a favor to ask of you because it's nomination time for the 2008 Podcast Awards. There is no secret panel; the podcasts with the most nomination votes are the nominees. The only way we can be nominated is if enough of you vote. If you enjoy this podcast or any of the other Quick and Dirty Tips shows, please visit podcastawards.com and nominate our shows. Grammar Girl and Quick and Dirty Tips are my full-time job, and knowing that people enjoy the shows enough to vote for us means a lot to me and the other hosts. Again, you can make your nominations at podcastawards.com.

That's all. Thanks for listening.

References

  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old­_english. Accessed Sept. 10, 2008.
  2. American Heritage Guide to Contemporary Usage and Style. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 2005, p. 360.
  3. http://german.about.com/library/blplural01.htm. Accessed Sept. 10, 2008.
  4. Garner, B. Garner's Modern English Usage. Oxford: Oxford University Press. 2003, p. 615.
  5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plurals. Accessed Sept. 10, 2008.
  6. http://www.historymania.com/american_history/Umlaut. Accessed Sept. 10, 2008.
  7. American Heritage Guide to Contemporary Usage and Style. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 2005, p. 361.
 
 

Comments (16) for What Is the Plural of “Mouse”? |  Subscribe to Comment

Cuyler Says:
11/12/2008 10:29:59 PM
I actually like the way irregular plurals sound and sometimes I think of how English might have extended the irregularities to other nouns, but didn't. For example, even though the words "goose" and "moose" sound similar, we might say "Look at all those geese!", we'd never say "What a large group of meese!". Likewise, since every leg of a moose has a "hoof", it normally has four "hooves", so shouldn't the plural of "roof" be "rooves"? And if "mouse" gives us "mice", why doesn't "house" pluralize to "hice"? Imagine saying something like, "All the town's hice had red rooves."
Jill Young Says:
11/12/2008 10:28:36 PM
Is men an irregular plural?
Ken Says:
10/6/2008 3:59:44 AM
hi all, To provide a simple and a straight forward response to the inquiry. In normal English, the plural of a mouse will definitely have to be 'mice', however when referring to the 'mouse' used with our computers in technical documentation, my suggestion is to use 'mouse device'. therefore, the plural would become 'mouse devices'. this is also as per the Microsoft Manual for Technical Publications. i hope i have been of some help, regards, Ken
Michael Says:
9/25/2008 9:06:22 AM
In hacker days of yore, the DEC VAX computer was often pluralized, "VAXen" http://is.gd/36VV , then by extension, any UNIX box was pluralized "boxen". http://is.gd/36W3
Adam Says:
9/23/2008 4:21:14 PM
There's another, less loved, way to form plurals. Consider criterion, and phenomenon; they use a rule derived from Greek.
Tim Says:
9/22/2008 11:21:39 AM
That should be "hear" and not "here". Oops.
Tim Says:
9/22/2008 11:20:10 AM
I once read that the word Children is actually double pluralized. Child was originally pluralized as Childer which was later doubly pluralized as Children. It is not uncommon to here it triply pluralized as Childrens in some American dialects. So every time you think someone sounds uneducated because they say "Childrens", remember that you are using an identical mistake from centuries ago when you say "Children".
Gabriel Says:
9/19/2008 3:09:17 PM
Regarding James's comment on pluralizing Latin nouns, scientists and mathematicians in the US would generally say 'radii,' 'vertices' and 'formulae,' though 'antennae' makes me think of insects, but not radios. Going the other direction, I treat 'data' as a plural and use 'datum' for the singular. Furthermore, 'datum' has a specific meaning in engineering and in topography that makes it important to keep the word alive. And thanks for that Rinkworks reference.
Duncan Says:
9/19/2008 12:20:27 PM
I agree with Tomas. Among ichthyologists and fisheries biologists, at least, "fishes" refers to a mixed group of species, as in "Fishes of the Great Lakes." "Fish," on the other hand, is the plural when referring to more than on individual of a single species. Gene Helfman used to make this point in his Ichthyology class, but I can't remember if it's also in the ichthyology textbook Helfman, Collette, and Facey.
Alas Gloria Says:
9/17/2008 5:51:26 PM
This podcast was really interesting I really enjoyed it. But their was something that really wasnt clear to me. Witch was when bonnie was talking about the six fishes i felt like you should of made it more clear it was kinda confuesing. But rather then that everything was pretty good.
rpmason Says:
9/17/2008 9:23:30 AM
I'm an American and I pronounce 'roofs' as 'rooves'. That's a whole 'nother show. Without looking it up, I'd say that US academia is more likely than US business to use Latin plurals over the English-ified plurals. My documents have appendixes and indexes.
Tomas Says:
9/17/2008 12:32:24 AM
I love this podcast! However, I believe you and Bonnie made a mistake. Maybe not a mistake but at least you were not very clear about "fish" and "fishes." When you were talking about the "six fish in the aquarium" you said, "you can pluralize fish in the normal way when you want to describe multiple individuals..." this doesn't make the distinction that the individuals must be unique species. Otherwise, there's six fish in the aquarium. I cannot support this with a reference but that is what I was taught.
Michelle Says:
9/16/2008 7:52:18 PM
Meeces, of course. =) Here is my reply on your tweet about marrying a good speller: Every morning, my boyfriend sends me a text message, "Good Morning, Beautifull =)". I've never told him about the misspelling. It used to make me nuts, but now, it's just uniquely him and is sweet to me.
James Says:
9/16/2008 2:33:27 PM
Personally, I *would* say "rooves"; maybe it's a British thing. The web page http://www.rinkworks.com/words/wordforms.shtml lists some very interesting irregular plurals. Worth bringing up are plurals of Latin words. Would I be correct in thinking that Britain uses them more than America? Personally I think that words like 'stadia' 'antennae' 'vertices' and 'radii' look and sound much better than 'stadiums', 'antennas', 'vertexes' and 'radiuses'. There are exceptions, of course, like 'fora' or 'villae', which are slightly too obscure and verge on the side of pedantry (like 'octopodes').
Delilah Cannon Says:
9/16/2008 1:00:26 PM
All this plurals and the s being on the end of the word makes it plural is really understandable. thanks grammar girl,
Cuyler Says:
9/16/2008 12:42:53 PM
I actually like the way irregular plurals sound and sometimes I think of how English might have extended the irregularities to other nouns, but didn't. For example, even though the words "goose" and "moose" sound similar, we might say "Look at all those geese!", we'd never say "What a large group of meese!". Likewise, since every leg of a moose has a "hoof", it normally has four "hooves", so shouldn't the plural of "roof" be "rooves"? And if "mouse" gives us "mice", why doesn't "house" pluralize to "hice"? Imagine saying something like, "All the town's hice had red rooves."

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