Episode Transcript

Is "Funnest" a Word?
Episode 134: September 12, 2008

Grammar Girl here.

Today's show was shoved into our editorial schedule because of a grammar emergency. Steve Jobs said “funnest” on Tuesday in his keynote address about the new iPods, and people all over the Internet freaked out. It may just be my skewed perspective, but it seems to me that more people were talking about whether “funnest” is a real word than were talking about iPods. I felt it was my duty to respond.

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Researching the word “funnest” and its close relation “funner” turned out to be a lot less fun than I had hoped. The opinions are so varied that I became completely engrossed and frustrated and forgot to call my mother on her birthday. Sorry, Mom.

"Fun," the Noun

First, the easy part. Everyone agrees that “fun” was originally just a noun. For example, you could say, “We had fun,” which is the grammatical equivalent of “We had cake.” Fun is more of an abstract thing than cake, but they're both nouns. People at the same party may disagree about whether they had fun, whereas they would probably all agree that they had cake, but “fun” and “cake” are both nouns.

"Fun," the Adjective

But now we head down the slippery slope of fun because many modern sources grudgingly accept that “fun” can also be used as an adjective, as in “Squiggly throws a fun party” (1, 3). In that sentence “fun” is an adjective that modifies the noun “party.” It was a fun party.

How "fun" made its way from a noun to an adjective is a great illustration of how language can change over time. Nouns can be used to modify other nouns, and when they are they're called attributive nouns. In the phrase "sugar cookie," "sugar" is a noun, but it's being used in an attributive way to describe the cookie. Attributive nouns do exactly the same thing as adjectives. You could say, "I ate a sugar cookie" or "I ate a yummy cookie." The sentences are constructed the same way, but "sugar" is an attributive noun and "yummy" is an adjective.

The Oxford English Dictionary notes a few uses of "fun" as an attributive noun such as "fun fair" and "fun-fest" in the early 1900s. It was probably from there that "fun" worked its way from noun to adjective. In English, nouns often end up becoming adjectives too (1, 2).

A few sources note that using "fun" as an adjective is a generational thing. It's much more acceptable to children (3), youngsters (4), slackers (5), and people who were born after 1970 (6). I suspect that many of you listening probably use “fun” as an adjective without even thinking about it, and it doesn't sound strange to your ears, but remember, that wasn't always the case. It's a concession on the part of language traditionalists to let you live after you say something such as "It was a fun party." They'd prefer you say something like “We had fun at the party.” 

"Fun," the Inflected Adjective

And here's where it gets really contentious. This is where I got stuck looking up reference after reference trying to find a convincing answer. If people accept that “fun” is an adjective, they should accept that “fun” can be inflected like other adjectives. If “crazy” becomes “crazier” and “craziest,” and “silly” becomes “sillier” and “silliest,” why can't “fun” become “funner” and “funnest”?

We told you in Episode 124 that "One-syllable adjectives use the suffixes ‘-er’ or ‘-est’ on the end of the adjective. For example, ‘tall’ has one syllable, so, if you wanted to compare the height of your family members, you might say, ‘I am taller than my sister, but I’m not the tallest in the family.’” If you accept that "fun" is an adjective, the way to make the comparative and superlative forms would be "funner" and "funnest."

Yet, even people who accept that "fun" is an adjective are unlikely to embrace "funner" and "funnest." It seems as if language mavens haven't truly gotten over their irritation that “fun” has become an adjective, and they've decided to dig in their heels against “funner” and “funnest.” In their minds, if “fun” as an adjective is still informal, then the inflected forms are still “nonstandard,” or to use less fussy words—“funnest” is grating and horrifying. And the language mavens still have enough influence to hold the line for now.

The Final Analysis

In the end, I've come to believe that there is a “fun” continuum. On one end you've got "fun," the noun, and everyone is happy to cluster around and be associated with it. That's the standard usage. Then, if you move on to "fun," the adjective, you've got a smaller but still significant group of people who will give their approval. That makes "fun" as an adjective informal usage. And then as you move on down the continuum you've got a much smaller group of people who are willing to grab "funner" and "funnest" by the shoulders and give them a big welcoming hug. That would be an example of language in flux. This small group clearly includes Steve Jobs, who has just thrust "funnest" into the spotlight. I predict the "funnest iPod ever" campaign will increase the general use of "funnest" and could even push it into the informal usage category. Now that's power.

Administrative

Thanks to all my Twitter friends whose comments about the word "funnest" inspired me to do this show, and thanks to our sponsor, GoToMyPC, which is offering a 30-day free trial of its service. Just visit GoToMyPC.com/podcast.

And, we've launched another great new podcast called The Nutrition Diva's Quick and Dirty Tips for Eating Well and Feeling Fabulous. She really knows her stuff and is a lot of fun. This week she's talking about the good and the bad when it comes to eating nuts.

You also may want to head over to QuickAndDirtyTips.com to sign up for our free e-mail newsletter. Not only will you get a free grammar tip every week or so, but this week we're also giving away another free chapter from my print book, Grammar Girl's Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing. The sign-up button is in the left-hand sidebar at the website.

That's all. Thanks for listening.

References

1. Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage. Springfield: Merriam-Webster, 1994, pp. 469-70.

2. Garner, B. Garner's Modern American Usage. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2003, p. 371.

3. The American Heritage Guide to Contemporary Usage and Style. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 2005, p. 197.

4. The Grammar Logs. #596, March 24, 2004, http://tinyurl.com/3nwddd (accessed September 9, 2008).

5. Wallraff, B. Word Court 87 (2000).

6. Garner, B. Garner's Modern American Usage. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2003, p. 370.
 

Other Sources

Online comments that include objections to "fun" as an adjective

One online comment that calls "fun" as an adjective "informal"

Online comments that support the use of "fun" as an adjective

Other Interesting Links

·  World Wide Words article about "fun" (Perhaps the best article online about the word "fun.”

The author doesn't take a strong stand on "fun" as an adjective but is opposed to "funner" and "funnest.")

 

Comments (29) for Is "Funnest" a Word? |  Subscribe to Comment

stacey Says:
11/18/2008 4:08:53 AM
that was fantastic .thx.
Brenda Says:
11/10/2008 4:25:28 PM
OK, I am baffled. If you concede that "fun" is "traditionally" a noun, then why does your "grammar quiz" bust me for choosing "We had fun." over "It was a fun party?" While a foolish consistency may well be the hobgoblin of small minds, I would want my grammar guru to at least be consistent with her own definitions. While we are on the subject of objectionable uses of "fun," let me pause to decry the use of "fun" as an adjective modified by "so" as in "It was so fun." UGH! For some reason, "so fun" sounds to me like some kind of Chinese rice noodle. Whatever happeend to something being "such fun" or "so much fun?" So fun? Pass the soy sauce, please...
Ian Says:
11/6/2008 10:31:14 AM
On the latest Grammar Girl quiz question three deals with the word "fun." When I chose the answer "We had fun." it said I was incorrect and that traditionally "fun" can only be used as a noun. Isn't that how it's used in that sentence?
Kaela Says:
10/28/2008 7:57:53 PM
Ha my dad and I saw the "funnest ipod ever" commercial and I was here within the next minute!!! the reason being that my dad and I always contradict each other on whether it is a word or not!!! thanks for the info!
Kyrill Says:
10/26/2008 9:35:11 AM
Hello there, this little mail isn't about the message above, but about who and whom I saw when to use whom on the Oprah show, but I still don't get it! :( please write to me kyrill_mahabier@hotmail.com. cheers.
Asa Says:
10/22/2008 5:19:29 PM
Actually, 'funnest' was recently added to the dictionary. I read it in an article about 6 months ago. I was pretty upset when I found out. I don't know where I read about it, but here is a link to Merriam Webster's online definition: http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/funnest
Craig Says:
10/20/2008 6:47:22 AM
I just heard the Redsocks coach use the word funnest and found myself here in about ten seconds! Funnest isn't a word in the same way that bestest, or differenter aren't words... A lot of people just use morphemes as if they can be added to the end of any word they choose - most of the time it sounds pretty ill educated or like baby talk. Funnier is a word, its the comparative form of fun... but the superlative of fun is the irregular form, most fun. Dull, but that's how it is... and yes... funnest may be a sign of language in flux as all living languages are in constant states of flux... I just hope English doesn't end up full of words like funnest in my lifetime! On a last note... funest is a word, but there is nothing funny about it!
Matt Says:
10/19/2008 8:47:14 AM
Never been to the site before. That's a sweet analysis of the situation, Grammar Girl! I do like the "goodest" argument though.
Jennifer Pickering Says:
10/12/2008 11:28:33 AM
I was not aware of the Steve Jobs controversy - I didn't see the announcement - but when I went to apple.com today, I was appalled that the full screen ad for the ipod touch had it labeled as the "Funnest ipod ever." Ick. I sent an email through their "contact us" system expressing my disapproval - and was amused to note that while I was typing at their website on my macbook computer, their auto spellchecker was underlining "funnest" as incorrect! Oooops. I guess Mr. Jobs didn't use a mac to type his notes.
teoni.peter Says:
10/10/2008 10:31:26 PM
word girl is so good but how long has she been on ABC what is grammar girl is funnest a word funnes mean's it is funny
Korpil Says:
9/30/2008 5:32:53 PM
Thanks for the article, but now, where do you leave the word "funniest" which I thought was the accepted ussage, before I ever considered "funnest".
David Says:
9/30/2008 9:40:10 AM
I agree with Chia. I can get past the issue of funnest, but it's the "songs that go great together" tag for iTunes 8 that I find absolutely grating every time I see or hear it.
Cococo Says:
9/24/2008 11:33:32 PM
I think that funnest should "become" a word. Only if you are wqriting like a formal essay ro speaking infront of people you are trying to impress, not using that word would probably be smart. But, if you are in class and are having a debate on which is more fun...funnest would be alright. Or if your just hanging around, "This is the funnest thing i've ever done!" in that case it would be alright! I dont see what the problem with using funnest is. Like she said, if we are using fun as an adj., we sould also treat it like one.
joeden Says:
9/17/2008 9:18:52 PM
"Gotten" is not a word either.
fatibel Says:
9/17/2008 5:52:44 PM
I can deal with funner and funnest if they're used the cheeky way. For more formal, normal usage however, I prefer "more fun" and "most fun". Did you research those?
goofy Says:
9/17/2008 9:13:28 AM
Erin McKean: "So, please, leave off the "not a real word" apologia. A far better (and dare I say, funner) technique is to jump in with both feet and use whatever word strikes your fancy. Instead of being defensive, demand that any who dare to quibble over your use prove that your word is, in fact, not a word." http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/08/03/chillax/
Mister Snitch Says:
9/14/2008 8:19:43 PM
If you can't have fun with fun, you're just no fun.
Katie Says:
9/14/2008 3:39:59 PM
This was the funnest podcast I heard this week.
J Clark Says:
9/14/2008 3:04:42 PM
Is "Think Different" really wrong though? Is "think big" also wrong? I don't think I've ever heard anyone questions that one (or "think green"), so why is "Think Different" any different (so to speak)? "Funner" is kind of annoying though...
frantisek Says:
9/14/2008 2:33:52 PM
I was born in 1970... non native speaker though.... Still.. Looking at the Apple's front page I'm not able to digest it. I understand all that marketing hype but is there any other way how to say the same more correctly? "the most fun iPod" for example... Thanx for comments.
Maryann Says:
9/14/2008 10:54:14 AM
If the phrase funnest ipod ever is not acceptable what would be an acceptable alternative? In other words, how could Steve jobs properly say that the ipod is "the funnest"
Edward Rios Says:
9/14/2008 3:29:26 AM
While your posts are interesting, your inclusion of advertising in the middle of the narrative is truly annoying. It shows a degree of disrespect for the reader that would typically be found on other types of sites.
Chia Says:
9/13/2008 2:23:00 PM
It was the "songs that go great together" that made me weep.
bcasiello Says:
9/13/2008 10:28:43 AM
The first time I heard 'funnest' in public was the Simpsons epsiode "Bart Gets an F" when Mayor Quimby proclaims: "I hereby declare this day to be Snow Day, the funnest day in the history of Springfield." If Diamond Joe uses it, it's, er, ah, okay by me.
David Says:
9/12/2008 10:31:04 PM
I am a native Spanish speaker, and as such I didn't understand since the beginning why was all the fuzz because in Spanish there is a noun (diversión) and an adjective (divertido) which I have always translated both just as "fun", and in the case of the adjective, under my reasoning it applies for the Inflected Adjective rule. There isn't a reason why it shouldn't. Maybe the influence of Spanish and other languages in the US is another reason of the appearance of this word. By the way, if you use a Mac (Mac OS X 10.5) and you search "fun" in it's built in dictionary it shows "funner" and "funnest" in its inflected form although it notes that it is an INFORMAL use.
mizruby Says:
9/12/2008 4:18:11 PM
Interesting! But "good" is an adjective, and we don't say "gooder" or "goodest." So I can accept "fun" as an adjective without having to agree to "funner" or "funnest." It's one of those "irregular" adjectives. At least, that's MY rationalization!
Kim Siever Says:
9/12/2008 2:07:12 PM
Excellent analysis. Thanks.
adam875 Says:
9/12/2008 10:35:57 AM
I have to say, when I saw the iPod ad I just assumed Jobs knew it wasn't a word and was being cheeky. "Look! We have a sense of humor! Our ads use words everyone knows aren't real! We're so fun! Er...so much fun...." But then, the "Think Different" campaign didn't feel ironic at all, and that was kind of annoying too. I was born after 1970, am a bit of a slacker, a die-hard Apple user, and have no problem with "fun" as an adjective... yet "funnest," used sincerely, makes me twitch!
rpmason Says:
9/12/2008 9:46:11 AM
Using a nonstandard word or a nonstandard structure is a quick way to get attention. If the iPod marketing campaign is successful, it wil provide one more push for 'funnest' to become standard. Remember, any publicity is good publicity. In any case, I'm not a youngster, a slacker, nor was I born after 1970.

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