Quick and Dirty Tips Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Email This Page

Wordiness And Idioms
Episode 12: November 13, 2008

View Comments (46) | Add Comment |

Subscribe to Comment

Grammar Girl here.

Today I'm going to play two listener comments that will lead us to a discussion of wordiness and idioms.

Wordiness

First, here's Tod in Canada from the todbits.com website:

Can you help me correct people? Everyone that I know seems to not be able to [not] put the phrase' go ahead and' in front of a verb. Every time they want to say a verb, they put the phrase 'go ahead and' in front of it. [For example,] I'm going to go ahead and walk down the street; I'm going to go ahead and send you the email; and the phrase 'go ahead and' is completely redundant. So, please I would love you to correct this and also tell us what other other prefixes in front of verbs are completely irrelevant. I'm going to go ahead and hang up now and listen to what you have to say.

Thanks Tod. Well said. I would call this wordiness, which is really just using a lot of unnecessary words.

Here's one that I'm guilty of in emails: for some reason I always start emails with the phrase I just wanted to let you know that, and then I get to my point. So I always have to go back and rewrite my emails so I don't belittle my own sentiment and waste the readers time. For example, I'll write, "I just wanted to let you know that I love your podcast." Ugh! Just say it: Dear Tod, I love your podcast. There's no need to sneak up on the sentence like you're trying to lasso a wild horse! I actually don't even think it's grammatically correct, or at least it's not good writing, because it uses the past tense (i.e., I just wanted) as if I wanted to tell him yesterday, but I'm writing today and, even though I'm not so sure anymore, I'll just say it anyway.

I'm sure there are other great examples I'm not thinking of, so I want to tap the audience on this one. If there's an unnecessary phrase like this that really bugs you, write in to feedback [at] quickanddirtytips.com and tell me about it. If I get more than a couple, I'll make a section compiling them on the website.

But first, it's free audiobook time again compliments of Audible, the Internet's leading provider of spoken word entertainment. Get a free audiobook download of your choice when you sign up today. For details, log on to audiblepodcast.com/gg.

Idioms

OK, since that was a short segment, we have time for another comment:

Hi Grammar Girl. Question for you: Would you be able to go into use of modifiers in a little bit more detail, use of pronouns, certain sentence constructions, and maybe some idioms. Things that get into a little more detail on sentence construction.

Thanks for the question. I'll touch on idioms today to keep the show short, and get to some of your more nitty-gritty questions very soon.

Idioms are phrases that don't mean what they literally say, but have meaning to native speakers. For example, the phrase under the weather is known by most native English speakers to mean that someone isn't feeling quite well, but if you weren't a native English speaker, you would probably have no idea what the phrase means by just looking at the words. I can just imagine some poor foreigner trying to figure out what it means to be literally under the weather. They might guess that someone is getting rained on, and who could blame them?

A lot of idioms seem to be holdovers of phrases that had a more literal meaning in the past. For example, some sources say that under the weather originates from a time when it was more common to travel by boat; and during storms seasick passengers would go below deck, where the rocking was less intense, and they were literally under the weather that was occurring above deck. However, idioms don't always have such clear historical sources, and even in this case some sources say that under the weather simply refers to the belief that bad weather can make you sick.

For a free book, visit audiblepodcast.com/gg. When you sign up for an account, you'll get a free audiobook. You could choose Global Wording, Charles Hodgson’s book about the forces that change language; The Last Lecture by Randy Pausch; or the Four-Hour Work Week by Timothy Ferris. A free audiobook sounds good to me! Audible continues to grow, so it now has over 40,000 titles you can download and play back anywhere, just as you can this podcast. So log on to audiblepodcast.com/gg to get a FREE download when you sign up today.

That's all. I realize the topics in the last couple of episodes have been a little bit light, but don't worry: I'll do some hard grammar again soon. As always, this is Grammar Girl, striving to be your friendly guide in the writing world. You'll find a transcript of this podcast at QuickAndDirtyTips.com. You'll also find links to pages that list lots of English idioms. Thank you to everyone who has emailed or called in with a question. To make it easier, I added a messaging tool in the website sidebar that will let you call in for free if you have a computer with a microphone, or you can still call in to the voicemail line at 206-338-GIRL (4475).

Comments (46) for Wordiness And Idioms | Subscribe to Comment

No Me Says:
12/12/2008 11:33:41 AM

What happened to "me"? My biggest pet peeve is when people use I when it should be me. "This is a picture of my girlfriend and I." Yuck!

TM Says:
12/10/2008 5:13:09 PM

Regarding wordiness... How about the use of "I'd like to..." to start a sentence, as in "I'd like to welcome you to Chicago", which is generally the first thing the flight attendant says after the plane lands. Why not just "Welcome to Chicago!". Why do they say they'd "like to" welcome me? Are they unsure? Would they like to welcome me but really just can't do it?

Paul Says:
11/28/2008 11:37:56 AM

Grammar Girl: I enjoyed your podcast on wordiness. Concise speaking (or writing) is not easy to do but is well worth the effort. During the podcast, you mentioned that you thought the phrase "I just wanted to ..." was perhaps not grammatical. I believe that it is. The tense (or more properly, the mood) of the verb is not the simple past but rather the imperfect. Paul

Simone Says:
11/20/2008 1:59:18 PM

Editing verbiage in the written word proves necessary, however in conversation, phrases like, "I'm going to go ahead and..." express so much! The beautiful of spoken language lies in these phrases because it reveals so much about the psyche of the person and culture of the people. With the swiftness granted in emails, a new blended conversational and professional language emerges. Language evolves!

Sue Hordos Says:
11/19/2008 12:07:00 PM

2008 Pet Peeve: "alot" is 2 words!! Use the space bar and keep it that way!

Carolyn Says:
11/17/2008 3:30:42 PM

Hi GG! re: wordiness pet-peeves. Mine are when people preface a statement by saying either "basically" or "actually". It seems as if many people just say them to sound smart, and not because their ensuing statements are pared down versions of a more complex issue (basically) or contradictions to a previous statement (actually). Thanks for letting me vent!

aardvark Says:
11/15/2008 9:22:10 PM

Hi Bill, The question mark goes inside of the quotation marks. Carol said,"Can you help me?" is correct. aardvark

anonymous Says:
11/15/2008 2:24:02 PM

a very helpful site it helped in understanding double words

Dave Wilton Says:
11/14/2008 7:51:29 PM

I disagree that these two examples are unnecessarily wordy. In both cases, the "redundant" verbiage carries important information. In the case of "go ahead and..." the extra words, depending on the context, emphasize intentionality, emphasize futurity, and the imply that the action is going to be taken without further notice or permission. In the case of "I just wanted to let you know that..." the extra words announce that this is the entire purpose of the message and that there are no additional or ulterior motives. Also, simply saying something like "I love your podcast!" can be construed as abrupt and a tad impolite. The additional words are social lubrication. I probably wouldn't use either of these formulations in formal writing, but in speech and informal writing they are perfectly appropriate.

Julius Says:
9/21/2007 5:33:26 PM

Augustus seems to confuse restrain with refrain, or might he have meant to say restrain myself?

Augustus Caesar Says:
9/21/2007 5:32:15 PM

You may also wish to address the passive voice. I appear unable to restrain from using it.

Augustus Caesar Says:
9/21/2007 5:28:52 PM

Grammar Girl, perhaps you could correct Tod, from 'wordiness' on his usage of split infinitives: "Everyone that I know seems to not be able to not put the phrase' go ahead and' in front of a verb." If I am to adhere closely to his sentence, He ought to have said, "Everyone that I know seems not to be able not to put the phrase..." But this an awful sentence as well. Perhaps, "I have noticed that many people use the phrase 'go ahead and' before they introduce their verb." I find that negatives are often cumbersome, and should be avoided unless negation is intended by the writer.

Andisiwe Ntshinga Says:
9/20/2007 3:22:59 AM

Hi Grammar girl Is there a difference between correct and rectify? My friend and I were chatting and she said something wrong, so I said “let me correct you there….” And she said no I’m supposed to say “let me rectify you there……” Could you please clear the confusion for me as I don’t want to make the same mistake again. Kind regards Andi

Monica Says:
9/10/2007 5:40:28 PM

This is the first time I have had a chance to listen to an episode and like it a lot. Thanks

wafa Says:
5/21/2007 11:19:53 AM

Hi GG;
I am wafa from Tunisia, I have seen you at the Oprah show,and your grammar rules were very intersting.I am writing my master memorundum in english and I don't know if you can help me by correcting my grammar mistakes in it. Thank you

SW Says:
4/9/2007 11:54:00 PM

I'm new to your web-site. Did I miss an article on the use of "gone missing", or "went missing" when describing the disappearance of a person? I hear newscasters use this term and it makes me nuts. I would think you would just say the person is missing...not "gone missing, went missing, go missing" etc.

Rima Says:
4/1/2007 7:30:09 PM

I am new to this site, so I don't know where to go to make comments, so I'll try this.

One of my major peeves is the misuse of "I," "me," and "myself." I wonder if you have already covered that.
Then there is the frequent confusion between possessives and plurals ( I too-often see "possessive's" and "plural's," not to mention "her's" and "Johns book" - ugh!)

Val Says:
3/27/2007 7:28:37 PM

"That" is my wordiness pet-peeve. Instead of writing, "I'm sorry that I didn't...," just say, "I'm sorry I didn't..." Whenever I'm proofing, I can save a lot of space by deleting almost all the "thats!"

Bill Mason Says:
1/23/2007 3:03:25 PM

Question mark & quotation marks: Which of below sentences are correct?
Carol said, "can you help me?"
"Can you help me," Carol said.
"Can you help me"?
Thanks for your comment;
Bill

GinnyD Says:
1/22/2007 7:47:48 PM

I have a question about redundancy in wording. I am working on an article discussing the "effective and efficient" introduction of a new program, but I'm finding "effective and efficacious methods" instead. Is this, as my father would put it, "repetitively redundant"?

JS Says:
1/17/2007 12:37:58 AM

In the podcast, you asked for suggestions of other meaningless phrases that contribute to wordiness. My favorite meaningless phrase to hate is "in order to". I can't think of a sentence in which the phrase isn't synonymous with simply "to". When I edit business documents, my first step is often to use MS Word search and replace to eliminate all instances (in order) to simplify and eliminate wordiness.

I would love to hear your comments about this useless phrase. When is it useful???

Grammar Girl Says:
1/13/2007 10:58:20 PM

It's acceptable for informal writing (and I actually do it a lot in the transcripts here), but you shouldn't do it in a formal document such as a business letter (unless you are specifically trying to give it an informal tone).

Katie Gibson Says:
1/11/2007 12:49:26 AM

When I write I come to where I'm so relaxed with writing that I start a sentence with so or and. Is that correct to start with so or and. thanks

Kristi from Washington, DC Says:
12/30/2006 6:02:09 AM

I listened to the beginning of this podcast multiple times in order to properly hear the caller. I am certain that in the audio version the caller says "Everyone that I know seems to not be able to put the phrase' go ahead and' in front of a verb." That is, the second "not," which you have included in the transcript, I do not believe was actually spoken. The caller mispoke, since of course he actually intended the double negative that you have written in the transcript. I could be mistaken, but I can't seem to hear that second "not!"

Jim Says:
12/29/2006 6:45:50 PM

Oops-- Talk about wordiness... I probably didn't need that redundant "use/used" in my opening sentence! That's what I get for not proofreading. ;-)

Jim Says:
12/29/2006 6:42:15 PM

The use of got can also be used to reinforce the iambic character of spoken English. "I've
two daughters" is noniambic because it begins with a stressed syllable. Adding "got" allows the first syllable to be unstressed, restoring the iambic flow of the sentence. Since we often hear the words in our heads as we write and read them (at least I do), writing in an iambic style makes the text "sound" more natural when it is read.

MM Says:
11/17/2006 9:58:46 PM

Gee Gee,

Just found out about you and your podcasts. Love your work.

Now then, what I wanted [sic] to know was [sic sic] whether or not "whether or not" is one of your wordy word phrases. And along the same lines, does "may or may not"—which as it turns out is always the case, whether or not we like it—maybe or not offend you?

M M
Bethesda, MD

T Says:
11/15/2006 12:08:02 PM

I'm also a latecomer but have another annoying, wordy introductory expression to offer--"not for nothing..." (i.e., I'm about to talk about something meaningful in some way...)or as my people in New Jersey say, "not for nothin'...". That's one that really drives me nuts.

Libby Says:
11/5/2006 8:56:00 PM

I've recently started listening to the Grammar Girl podcast. It's pretty wonderful!

A wordiness error that I'm consistently guilty of is the double modal error. I'm from the South, and my family and I cannot stop saying "I might could."

Grammar Girl Says:
11/3/2006 9:42:30 PM

I have received so many questions about "got" lately! You can be sure that it will be an episode topic in the next month or two. It's actually not wrong to say something such as "I've got two daughters," although I agree that it sounds better as "I have two daughters." Here are some links if you want to read up on the topic:

http://esl.about.com/cs/beginner/a/beg_havegot.htm
http://www.1-language.com/englishcourse/unit19_grammar.htm

Sara Says:
11/3/2006 9:35:29 PM

I've been catching your back episodes, and since I love english, but had a football coach (who could have cared less) for a grammer instructor, it's been fab. HOWEVER.

"You've got questions" perturbed me because isn't "you've got" a repetitive phrase? It's something I hear all the time but drives me crazy because (I thought) it was wrong. Am I too uptight or just right?

matt Says:
10/26/2006 8:18:18 PM

i know that i'm late to the comments for this particular podcast, but i only recently discovered the bliss that is grammar girl...

anyway. the first thing i thought when i heard the caller say "go ahead and" was the 1999 comedy film "office space." in it, the lead (not lede) character's boss begins many of his sentences with the phrase, as in "i'm going to have you go ahead and come in all day saturday and sunday." his boss is a pretentious twit who wants to be conversational, even as he treats his minions like, well, minions. so he uses wordiness in lieu of real conversation. constantly.

i notice this phrase all the time, and i wonder whether it's seeped into common usage as a result of the movie. it could be a chicken / egg thing, too - maybe i'm just more sensitive to it BECAUSE of the movie. dunno.

love the podcast, tho. keep it up!

Grammar Girl Says:
10/20/2006 1:35:06 AM

Interesting point!

brian d foy Says:
10/19/2006 11:25:10 PM

As Noelle mentions, wordiness is not such a sin in spoken language or conversational writing. In her examples, the extra words either enforce or hide a power relationship.

Extra words in spoken conversation, such as "I'm going to go ahead and..." are the attention getter. Most people probably will miss the first part of your sentence when you start speaking again, so you may have to get their attention so they hear the rest of it.

While writing we can use an economy of words, and words all we can use to communicate our meaning. In spoken language, pacing, pitch, facial expression, and many other extra-literal factors come into play. Heck, even silence and pause length can convey meaning!

Grammar Girl Says:
10/17/2006 2:33:04 AM

Good point!

I struggle with a similar issue when I write the transcripts for the show. Sometimes the grammatically correct way to say things sounds weird when you are speaking. For example, I often begin sentences with "and" when I am talking, but that's obviously poor sentence construction.

I try to find a balance somewhere between a conversational tone and perfect grammar. (And, of course, people definitely let me know when I err too far on the side of conversational tone! Oops. There I go again with the "and.")

Noelle Says:
10/16/2006 2:33:30 PM

Hi Grammar Girl,
I just discovered your podcast and love it. I used to read William Safire's column all the time, but he's getting annoying and only talks about political words now.

I listened to the "You've got Questions" podcast about the overuse of phrases such as "go ahead and..." and "I just wanted to let you know that...".

While I agree with you wholeheartedly that these phrases are overused, I think you need to make a distinction between writing an article or a book versus speaking in conversation or in email. I believe the intent of those phrases is to soften the blow of something that might come as unpleasant or unwelcome. My husband, a doctor, seems to use the "go ahead and..." thing a lot when speaking to patients. As in, "Why don't you go ahead and lie down on the examination table." sounds less cold than "Please lie down on the examination table."
Or, in an email to a supervisor: "I just wanted to let you know that I won't be in on Monday because my child has a dentist appointment." sounds more gentle than the abrupt "I won't be in on Monday...".

So, I agree that they can be annoying, but I understand the impulse to use them in conversation to soften the blow of something. Good conversation is not always the same as good writing.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest!

By the way I'm a scientist (geneticist and developmental neurobiologist) and now look forward to listening to your other podcast on science!

Noelle

Grammar Girl Says:
9/23/2006 4:45:41 PM

Thanks Alison! Those are great topic for future shows. I'll put them on my list.

Alison Says:
9/23/2006 4:12:55 AM

Hey GG!

I just discovered your podcast and I've been listening to your past shows. I was excited to listen to the one about idioms, but was disappointed that you didn't discuss the idioms I was expecting... you know, the ones with prepositions!

For example:
Different from (not different than!)
Responsible for/responsibility to
Plan to (not plan on!)

As for future shows, I'd be interested in the use of the words where, when, and which. I often hear people misusing these words. For instance, "Democracy is a system where..."

"Where" is for places!

Thanks - you rock!

Grammar Girl Says:
9/13/2006 11:38:47 PM

Great catch! Thank you!

I do want to emphasize though that no one should feel intimidated about asking questions. I hope that everyone is here to learn, and we all make mistakes. Even me!

So although I encourage people to continue pointing out errors, or funny things like someone having wordiness in their question about wordiness, please don't take it personally if your question is the one being commented on!

GG

Grammar Girl Says:
9/13/2006 11:33:54 PM

Not only and but also are correlative conjunctions. Bartleby has a nice overview. Other correlative conjunctions include

* either and or
* neither and nor

If you are writing something like, "She was not only snotty but also clueless," you could rewrite it as, "She was both snotty and clueless," or even just, "She was snotty and clueless." [Note: I just returned from a very unsatisfying shopping trip.]

There's nothing wrong with using the not only...but also construction, but it's also nice to mix things up every once in a while.

Also, did you know there's a movie titled Not Only...But Also?

Donna Eyestone Says:
9/13/2006 11:33:15 PM

I love your podcast! I listen to it and hope it can improve my writing. I never understand the "lingo" but I understand your examples and they are so clear!

Your first segment this week: wordiness. Your second segment: idioms -starts out with some unnecessary wordiness "I have a question for you" I hate when people say that....just ask the question. It's like "can I ask you a favor/question?" Anyhow, you asked for other examples.

Cheers,
Donna

Grammar Girl Says:
9/13/2006 11:16:51 PM

What? Doesn't everyone? (Now stop procrastinating and get back to work on your novel Will!)

Anonymous Says:
9/13/2006 8:59:56 PM

Hey Grammar Girl,

I think your podcast is great. One of my bad habits is using the phrase "not only...but (also)" excessively. A good deal of my sentences end up being structured in accordance with this phrase. Can you propose any alternatives?

Will Ross Says:
9/13/2006 7:33:34 PM

Mignon edits her emails! Hahahahahahahaha :)

Grammar Girl Says:
9/13/2006 3:41:50 PM

That's a shame! It was a great site. I checked the code and the link is correct, but it looks like the page is gone. The error message says they've exceeded their bandwidth, so maybe it buckled under the traffic from all you grammar fans. I hope it comes back.

GG

Anonymous Says:
9/13/2006 1:38:21 PM

The "Expressions and Sayings" link does not work.